Engine Radiator Fan

[encantotom]

hi all,

i am on a constant qwest to be sure my engine is cooled as efficiently as possible and the monitoring systems are the best i can do. if you follow my other posts, i have put in dual coolant senders with a digital gauge and switch between them, as well as a pyrometer which my coach didnt have. i am accumulating the parts to do a radiator misting system as well.

that said, i just read a really interesting thread on the wanderlodgeowners group site about repowering a sp36 with a cat3208 to a cummins. you would be fascinated by the post.
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063

in it is alot of discussion about the engine fan for the radiator. this engine config they put in is a rear radiator like our 8v92's. they used a fan blade that pulls air from the back into the radiator if i understood them right. there is even a picture showing a garbage bag sucked onto the outside back of the radiator with the engine running showing it pulling air rather than pushing. they also give a stat that says that pulling air through is 18% more efficient than pushing it through like mine does.

what do you guys know or feel about this data?

any thoughts or experiences?

thanks

tom

[Richard and Rhonda]

It would be easy to settle the argument if the fan wasn't running. Mount two manometers. One with the input tube six inches in back of the radiator and the other six inches in front. Drive down the road at 60. Air will move from the highest pressure to the lowest.

I don't know if fan blade design is sophisticated enough to make a difference between pulling and pushing.

One of the factors in that discussion was that the engine was mounted with a fire truck fan. Did you notice how many blades were on that puppy?

If you are interested in tinkering with this, then maybe the thing to do is investigate fan designs, I would think that most would be rateed for flow at a given RPM

[fulltiming]

I would suspect that a fire truck would have a fan blade optimized for about 1000 rpm.

[Wally Arntzen]

When I first got my coach about 5 years ago it had a heavy steel fan that weighed about 90 pounds and ran all the time. My friend at the bus repair garage that I have work done at suggested that I put in a fan clutch with a plastic fan.
In doing this there was a lot of detail in getting a fan with less blades, the right pitch to move more air faster.
We installed it with an air switch that activates the fan clutch, a light on the dash that goes on when the fan switch activates and a manual switch on the dash so I can keep the fan on continuois in very hot weather.
In the winter and fall the fan clutch sometines activates a 5 to 15 minutes intervals depending on the outside temperatures and when in the south and western areas I leave the fan on continous.
It was a great addition. I do not have the temperature problems that a lot of the guys are experincing when driving in hot weather or driving up steep long grades. I did have my radiator redone and a 185 degree thermostadt installed.

Wally Arntzen

[zcasa]

Hey Guys:

Getting ready to do some service on the Coach and was wondering if anyone has a recommendation on a Detroit Bus Shop in Denver, CO? Looking around now and always nice to hear of a positive recommendation by fellow Newell owners.

David

[fulltiming]

David, I don't have any personal experience with any of the shops in the Denver area. Although they are not the cheapest place around, there is a Stewart & Stevenson in Commerce City (5840 Dahlia St) 720-322-7140. I have used the S&S in El Paso, TX with good results. Some have a good 8V92 mechanic on staff (El Paso does) but other locations might not. It would take a visit or phone call to the service manager to confirm.

Finding a good local bus company like Tom has is best but they are somewhat harder to find.

Hopefully someone will chime in with more information.

[zcasa]

Thank you, Michael. I have used the S & S here in Denver a few times with very good results, although a little on the pricey side compared to Tom's shop in Phoenix. I am hoping to find a similar shop here in Denver to establish a long term relationship with. I have looked up the Detroit Diesel service centers in Denver and have contacted one of those and I will take your recommendation and visit the shop before taking the Coach in for service. In speaking with the service manager, he said that they put 15w 40 in the Detroits. I challenged that with a straight 40 weight comment and he responded by saying it is 40 weight????? So I'm a little dense on this any help on oil descriptions etc would be most appreciated. BTW, safely tucked back into Denver. Hope you can make it to Creede.

[chockwald]

Don't let them con you into 15w-40.......you need straight heavy duty single grade 40wt. 15-40wt should only be used when operating in temps that are consistantly below freezing for long periods of time. A local shop tried that con on me, and insisted, even as they watched me walk out the door that 15w-40 was "OK" for 2 strokes. A good source of info on 2 strokes is Tejas Coach Works. Here is the link for their disertation on oil requirements:

http://tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html#Oilclass

[fulltiming]

Nope, 15w-40 is NOT 40 weight. Tom has a friend that is a petroleum engineer that can go into the gory details but 15w-40 is based on 15 weight oil with viscosity improver additives to cause it to theoritically act like 40w in cold weather. Newell has always recommended 15w-40 Mobil Delvac 1 Synthetic (no other 15w-40) or straight 40w if you are not using Delvac 1 but DD and all other manufacturers recommend only a straight 40w with a low ash content. 40w Delo 100 is the recommended oil if you can find it. Rotella 40T is also satisfactory for use in the 8V92's but is higher in ash than the Delo 100 (note Delo 400 in 40w is not recommended due to the high ash content). The criteria should be a SAE Viscosity Grade: 40-API Classification: CF-2, Military Spec.: Mil-L-2104D, Sulfated Ash: Less than 1.0% under normal temperature conditions. If it has this on the label, you are good to go.

[chockwald]

Michael.....my coach has always had Rotella 40wt heavy duty in it since it was built, and I continue to use that, but ever since reading the Tejas website a year ago, I'm thinking that I should switch to Delo 100 as it has lower ash content. Some have said I should stay with Rotella since that is all my 6v has ever known, but switching to Delo 100 seems to be a smarter move. What say you?

[fulltiming]

Rotella still meets the ash standard so since it has been used successfully in your coach there is really no compelling reason to change brands. That said, if you feel more comfortable with the Delo 100, it should not be a problem to change. Different oils can have different additives and some are will result in more or less sludge removal when you change brands. Short answer: your choice, either is fine.

[chockwald]

Thanks, Michael....I'm getting ready to order more Rotella, and wanted to be reassured before I proceed. Man, this stuff is expensive!

[zcasa]

Thank you Clarke and Michael:

This is another print out and keeper for sure. Tom phoned as well and gave to me a reference on Busride.com for a publication that lists diesel shops nationwide. I have asked them for volume discount and will post to see if anyone else is interested in purchasing at same time when I get the pricing.

Thanks guys and have a good day.

David

[fulltiming]

Clarke, if you think the Rotella is expensive, price the Delvac 1!!

[zcasa]

One other quick question, is there a source for this 40w Delo 100? When I phone a couple of these bus shops they say oh yeah we have that 40w bring it in. Seems a little bit too much of a canned answer if the oil is a little hard to get a hold of. Seems like it might be a good idea to take this special oil in even if it costs a little bit more for them to use it?

[encantotom]

any good bus shop will have the oil you need. my shop has it in huge drums...in fact, wally went there and bough the oil there to change his own oil.

i would have to go look, but i think i paid around 10 bucks a gallon for the oil.

the whole reason for having a good shop is that they have all this stuff....

my shop has the filters, oil, premixed coolant with the nitrates etc.

the other huge issue for do it your selfers, besides a place to do the work, is the LARGE volume of fluids that comes out and goes in of these beasts...

if you do oil, tranny, differential and coolant, you would need a 55 gallon barrell to put it all in.....

i know there is much debate on if it makes sense to do fluid samples to get them analyzed, but i do it.

later

tom

[fulltiming]

David, the last time I was at Stewart & Stevenson (El Paso), they had to go pick up the 40w oil, they didn't have any in stock even though they had a fire truck, my coach and two buses in the shop, all with 8V92's. Try O'Reilly Auto Parts. The one on Hwy 183 here in Austin has Delo 100 40wt $12.99 a gallon which is of course more expensive than Tom's bus shop.

[zcasa]

Thanks again guys. I'm outta here to watch my granddaughter for the rest of the day. More fun than this oil stuff. lol.

[zcasa]

Ok, found the oil, 40w Delo 100. Ouch!!!! $14.66 per gallon. $95.03 per case, incl. tax here in Denver. Closest O'Reilly's was Durango, an 8 hour drive away in a car. But, if this is what I should be using and it saves an overhaul, I'm all for it. I think Michael told me these 8V92's hold 40 quarts? Plus the 2 gallon reserve?

Now onto a good bus shop. With Tom's help, I should have one tomorrow.

David

[encantotom]

hi david,

wait to see if the bus shop you find has the oil. i bet they will.

tom

[Wally Arntzen]

I went to Tom's friend in Arizona and got the oil from him and changed it in the RV park I was in and did not get caught or make a mess to worry about. I went to campers world and bought a waste holding tank on wheels that was on sale for 49 bucks, drained the oil into it and brought back to Tom's friend and dumped the waste oil into his old oil tank and left the holding tank at a friends house for next year.
I deal with a bus garage in Bloomington, MN which specializes in 8v92's and they have 40 wieght oil in 50 gallon drums, the same as Tom's friend.
Any shop that does a lot of work on old buses has the oil or has ready access to it. The shop that I deal with has 30 weight with the same spec's that they use in buses that run in the winter in Minnesota, but I always use the 40 weight.
I do every other change myself and change oil 2 times a year wether it needs it or not, and when its changed at the garage I have the old oil analyzed to determine condition of the engine. They also lube it and change the differential and transmission at the same time. I use transend synthetic in the tranny and synthetic in the differential, both very pricey but very protective to the equipment.I also change the anti freeze every year which assures me that the radiator will stay clean.
I am a preventative maintanance maniac but I think its worth it. I don't drink or use drugs, don't smoke, don't cheat on my wife so I spent a few extra bucks on taking care of the coach.
Wally

[zcasa]

Wally, definitely sounds like your philosophy keeps life much less complicated. Forecast calls for no hurricanes during the Creede week. Come on over.

David

[Richard and Rhonda]

That is a wonderful idea for the drain pan. Thanks Wally.