Battery Dead

[bluesky]

Just loaded up our coach to head to Montana for a concert, turned the key and nothing happened. Put the Battery Merge on and engine slowly turned, but not enough to start.

Hmmmm, earlier in the week I turned the leveling system to travel mode due to a leaky valve when in park mode. Could this have drained my battery?

And what would you suggest I do now. Thanks folks.

[encantotom]

hi,

first of all, the travel mode switch would not do it.

i dont know what battery set up you have. there are a number of configs. mine has two 8d for each side. others have 4 and 2, others have 6 and 2.

you need to separate it into chunks. on mine if the engine battery is dead, the coach batteries if fully charged will easily start the engine.

first of all, you need to get your batteries charged. hopefully you can just plug into shore power where you are. if not, you might try jump starting your generator and let it run to charge your batteries. (with the merge switch on). there is something drawing down the batteries or the batteries are bad or one of them is bad. that bad boy engine takes a lot of cranking amps to fire up.

i would first see if there is anything on that might draw from the engine batteries and start there. if you dont see anything obvious, then put a clamp on ampmeter on one of the legs of the engine battery cables and see how much current is being used.

you can do the same process for the house batteries.

on mine. i had the big fuse on the engine batteries go bad and i thought the batteries were bad.

it is usually that you left something on.

tom

[bluesky]

Thanks Tom

Checked to see what I left on that would drain the engine battery, and the only thing I noticed was the leveling position. So, there must be something else on, the battery has never given me a problem in the past.

Curious why my house batteries weren't strong enough to crank the engine over.

The coach is plugged in and the battery merge is set to on, how long do you think will it take to charge up enough to start the coach? I'm itchin' to get on the road.

[prairieschooner]

Glenn,
Lets start with the basics. When I shut down my '82 I always shut down the Engine Batteries, that would be the Battery Switch at the Engine Bay to starboard (curbside) in order to Isolate those Batteries. When I leave my coach for any reason I turn Off my House Batteries, that would be the Battery Switch at the forward bay to starboard (curbside).
If the Battery Switches were turned off then you may have a Bad Battery or two. If the Battery Switches were left on then that could explain the dead batteries.
Now for the Batteries; I choose to have Flooded Lead Acid. I use two size 8D for the Engine Start (and four 6 Volt Golf Cart type for the House). These type of Batteries are typically good for 3-5 years. I suggest that you have a load test performed on these Engine Start Batteries and if questionable simply replace them.
The size 8D Batteries that I use for my Engine are inexpensive Starting type Batteries, I think that I paid about $120.00 for each Battery this summer. I just replace them every couple of years because they are relatively inexpensive and I don't want to be stuck anywhere.
This is how I maintain my coach and not necessary the way anyone else should, just a suggestion.

[prairieschooner]

Glenn, If you are using a HEART Power Inverter as your Charger it shouldn't take more that a 1/2 Hour or so if the Power Setting is on 50 Amps.

[HoosierDaddy]

Glenn,
Are you sure your batts are dead? I would check starter motor cables...Make sure they are clean and tight.

[tuga]

Glenn,

How old are your batteries?

The engine/generator starting batteries usually last about 2 years. The house batteries usually last about 5 years. If the age of your batteries exceed these ages, I would have them load tested by a battery shop (be sure to disconnect all battery cables before load testing). Be sure to charge them up good before you test them. I wrap the cable ends with a small towel to keep them from arcing out if they touch any metal.

Also, make a diagram before you disconnect the battery cables.

[prairieschooner]

I think that we are saying the same thing Tuga. The only difference is that I just change my size 8D Starting Batteries every 2 years as a part of maintenance, similar to replacing the Tires at the recommended intervals.
If however I had AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Batteries that would be different. What I remember from when I was doing yacht maintenance LIFELINE recommended to Fully Charge and Equalize their Batteries. How Frequent and the Rate of the Discharge/Charge/Equalize of the AGM Battery will effect the life of this type Battery.

[chockwald]

If one battery has gone bad it will drain the others down quickly. When you are plugged in is your amp meter inside the coach showing positive, or negative draw? If the draw is negative when plugged in you probably have a bad battery. The other possibility is a bad ground somewhere in the starting system, or a bad fuse. Area any of the batteries hot to the touch? If so, this will indicate the battery is sulfating.

[tuga]

Steve & Clarke,

I agree. My house battery AGMs will be 6 years old in January 2012. Do you think it is too late to equalize them? I have never done it before; scared to do it because I was afraid I might forget to turn off a 12v appliance and it would be damaged.

I installed a Power Pulse device on my AGMs and my engine/generator batteries. Normally my engine batteries would last 2 years; these with the Power Pulse lasted 4 years. Newell Coach sells the Power Pulse or you can buy them online. Newell claims that the Power Pulse doubles the life of the battery. So far, they're right!

[prairieschooner]

Tuga,
Since you have the Power Pulse Device I would consider continuing on as you have been. It appears that your batteries are doing as designed, nothing lasts forever.

Here is a link to Lifeline and their Battery Users Manual;
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.php

Look under Notes and you will see something that would agree with what I am suggesting; Conditioning/equalizing should only be done when the battery is showing symptoms of capacity loss.
Since the Charge rate is so much different (Conditioning/Equalizing Charge: 15.5 volts for 8 hours). It does appear radical but that is how to clean the sulfate off of the plates.

How much was the Power Pulse Device?

[Richard and Rhonda]

Can you get the genny cranked? Can you plug in, even to 110?

Do you have a standalone battery charger?

Can you disconnect the house battery cables, jump them to an automobile and crank the genny?

I don't think the travel switch would have any impact unless the ignition were left on.

BTW, I use both the batter disconnects, house and chassis, anytime I am not using the coach and it's not plugged in. I have too many parasitic drains for the batteries to last very long.

[bluesky]

Folks

Thank you all for your great input. I went out to the coach this morning, after leaving her plugged in all night with the Battery Merge on, and she started right up!

I will need to find out what was draining the engine batteries, however, right now I'm going to jump in her and head out on the open road for a cruise. That should recharge the batteries. Cheers.

[express1]

That was way to easy,,,, Lets take something apart and change something. Maybe you could just open the battery bay and just throw money inside:thumbsup:

[Wally Arntzen]

I've been using the power pulseres long before Newell started using them, approx 12 years and they are great. I don't know what they cost today but when I got them they were 65.00. At the present time I have CAT maintainance free batteries that are approx 6 years old and I expect them to last 12 years or more. The other 6 years I had them in my other Newell which has been sold.

[tuga]

I think I paid about $85 each 6 years ago. Each Power Pulse will "run" up to 3 batteries so I purchased 4 Power Pulses: one for my 2 engine/generator batteries and three for my house batteries. The way the house batteries are configured I need to buy an extra PP.

When the house batteries were new we could dry camp for about 18 to 20 hours before they needed a charge. Now it is down to about 10 to 12 hours. So I guess I may need to equalize them and if that doesn't do the trick, buy new ones.

Question: Does prolonging the replacement of house batteries damage the inverter?

[prairieschooner]

The Inverter should have some overload protection but when the voltage gets lower the amperage goes up.
Since you are experiencing a reduction in power it may be prudent to equalize (or condition) them. I was surprised how much better it made a set of batteries perform on a 42' Egg Harbor but that was about 15 years ago.

[RussWhite]

My inverter has undervoltage protection. In other words, when the voltage gets too low, the inverter senses that and shuts down with a diagnostic code for UV. I could look up the value at which it shuts down, but today I am too lazy. In answer to Tuga's question I am doubtful that low batteries will in any way damage the inverter. When they start decreasing the useful time they will carry the load when dry camping and if that time cannot be increased with an equalization, then I think that is a good time to go shopping. Russ

[express1]

I think I paid about $85 each 6 years ago. Each Power Pulse will "run" up to 3 batteries so I purchased 4 Power Pulses: one for my 2 engine/generator batteries and three for my house batteries. The way the house batteries are configured I need to buy an extra PP.

When the house batteries were new we could dry camp for about 18 to 20 hours before they needed a charge. Now it is down to about 10 to 12 hours. So I guess I may need to equalize them and if that doesn't do the trick, buy new ones.

Question: Does prolonging the replacement of house batteries damage the inverter?

Hey Tuga, I think the house and generator batteries are the same....

[prairieschooner]

sorry Russ but a set of AGM Batteries could be rejuvenated by going through the Equalization or Conditioning process. Go to my earlier link to Lifeline's Battery Users Manual and you can read about this.
When I was taking care of that Egg Harbor that had Lifeline AGM Batteries and the Batteries were starting to lose life, I talked to Lifeline about this and that is what they recommended. On that vessel and others that I maintained it worked and the Batteries were as good as new but that is not always the case.
Before I went out and spent that kind of $$ on new Batteries I would at least try that process although I am not familiar with the Power Pulse and if does something very similar.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Powerpulses 52 bucks on amazon.com <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004I6QREK/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004I6QREK&linkCode=as2&tag=affiliatechie-20">12 Volt Power Pulse Battery Charger</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=affiliatechie-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B004I6QREK" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

[encantotom]

i have a power pulse on each bank of my batteries. been 3 years with them so far for both sets.

tom

[folivier]

I put Powerpulses, 1 on each bank, when I bought my coach 3 years ago. Not sure how old they were when I bought the coach but so far going strong. I figure if I get a couple more years they are well worth the money.

[prairieschooner]

hey Richard, how about a link?

[RussWhite]

When they start decreasing the useful time they will carry the load when dry camping and that cannot be increased with an equalization, then I think that is a good time to go shopping. Russ

Good catch! Just a typo, but I need to be more careful with my flying fingers. Intended to say "When they start decreasing the useful time they will carry the load when dry camping and if that time cannot be increased with equalization, then I think that is a good time to go shopping."

Original post edited.

Russ

[Barry Rooker]

I'm using flooded lead acid maintenance-free batteries with Power Pulse. The chassis batteries are now five years old & the house batteries are four years old.

It takes three Power-Pulse units (@$50 each online) to equip the chassis batteries + the two shelves of house batteries my coach has.

We never dry camp & seldom aren't plugged in to either 110 or 220 so my batteries have a pretty good life. Still thinking of changing them all just to avoid trouble on the road.

Just spoke to the local Interstate dealer & he'll deliver eight 8D's to my house (and pick up the old ones) for $219 each + tax. They'll all be starting batteries actually with 1,400 CCA.

A problem is that I'm not sure my cousin & I can life 140# batteries onto the house battery shelves. I've done the chassis batteries by my self & they're not too tough to handle, being down low to the ground.

[chockwald]

Barry, surely you and your cousin can lift 70 lbs each. I've lifted an 8d battery into position, and removed them all by myself, and I am no gym rat. Sure, it's heavy but if you use proper lifting technics, then you could even do it by yourself. $216 for pickup and delivery is a pretty good deal.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Barry,

In my unasked for opinion, do not use cranking batteries as the house batteries.

First, they are not designed for that. They don't last very long lifetime wise because cranking batteries are designed to deliver high current for short bursts, as opposed to low current for long periods. Second, they don't last very long in use because of the same reason.

That was theory. Let me give you my data. The previous owner put brand new starting batteries in my coach as chassis batteries just before I bought it. I installed powerpulses on them. When they were new, they would barely last 10 hours to run the fridge and TV through the night. One by one they failed and I took them out of service. I replaced them with AGM's that I bought from Tuga's connection. The AGM's, and I have six of them, show about a .4 V drop when boondocking overnight.

If you are planning on keeping the coach, I think you will be happier in the long fun using either AGM's or golf cart batteries. The problem with golf cart batteries is they won't fit the racks that Newell made. I could get them in sideways, but they were too tall for the bottom rack, and the posts and cables wouldn't clear the top rack.

[encantotom]

btw, i bought 8D starting batteries at sams club. they are made by interstate. they were 125 dollars if i remember right.

the interstate 8d AGM batteries i got were 400 each.

tom

[express1]

Barry, surely you and your cousin can lift 70 lbs each. I've lifted an 8d battery into position, and removed them all by myself, and I am no gym rat. Sure, it's heavy but if you use proper lifting technics, then you could even do it by yourself. $216 for pickup and delivery is a pretty good deal.

Lifting technics,,,,,,,,a strong friend? Gym Rat lol!lol!

[prairieschooner]

Ditto for using Starting Batteries for the House Banks. The Deep Cycle Batteries are more $$$ but worth every penny! Still I use 6 Volt Golf Cart Type for the House on our '82.