round headlights

[encantotom]

hi,

my 2002 has 4 round headlights.

does anyone know the part numbers of the lenses and of the lamps themselves? my son was over tonite with his chrysler 300c SRT8 (awesome car by the way) and his HID lights were brighter and whiter than the ones on the coach. (we compared them in the driveway).

if no one happens to have the part numbers and which ones they use, i will have to crawl up there and find out.

are they HID's?

thanks

tom

[afrench45]

Hi Tom,
I don't have any part numbers, but I just took my bulbs out and went to autozone and bought new bulbs... Seems like they were $30 or so. I think Newell started installing the HID bulbs in 04

[encantotom]

that explains why they are not killer bright then. has anyone done an hid conversion on these?

tom

[Richard and Rhonda]

Tom,

If you decide to do the HID conversion, please replace the lenses with HID specific lenses. It is possible to retrofit existing lenses with HID kits. They do put a lot of light out there, but they also blind the oncoming drivers with glare. Lenses are designed with a very tight specification for where the filament must be located within the reflector housing. When you switch types of bulbs, the filament location goes out the window.

Of course, I am going to say to try to find the Euro HID lenses............

[davidmbrady]

Tom,

I swapped out my 120mm halogens and put in 90mm HID Xenon's. Below is a photo album showing the new lamps in my bus. Eventually I'd like to bring the lamps out so they protrude thru the bumper, frog eye style. To finish it off I need a black nacelle. In the Mojave at night I can see 10 miles down the road. The lamps are fantastic.

https://picasaweb.google.com/dmb2000/Headlights

And, here's where I bought them. I see that they have come down in price a bit (thanks to the crashing euro):
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4283
http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=4284

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi
NC

[RussWhite]

Richard is so right on this one. Folks just run out and purchase an ignitor and HID bulb and stuff it in a reflector designed for halogen. The light it bright and the driver is happy, but the light is blasted in all directions including into the eyes of oncoming drivers. It's all illegal, but LEOs are not equipped to enfore. The stats for night driving show it to be a much more dangerous time to drive, so I just try to plan my trips for daylight. Russ

[davidmbrady]

The links I posted for the Hella HID Xenon lamps are the real deal, a matched set of bulbs, reflector, and lens. They're not cheap, but the prices have been coming down, thanks to the beneficial euro/dollar exchange rate. The high beams do need to be used judiciously. They're like a 747 coming in for a landing. The low beams have a very sharp european style cutoff that completely eliminates glare to oncoming drivers. NFI

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird Wanderlodge LXi, NC

[Richard and Rhonda]

We need to get David in a Newell. Seriously, lot's of similarities with the owners over on their forum. There's just a lot more of them.

Yeh, the online source that David linked supplies Euro spec lights for "off road use"

[davidmbrady]

We need to get David in a Newell. Seriously, lot's of similarities with the owners over on their forum. There's just a lot more of them.

Yeh, the online source that David linked supplies Euro spec lights for "off road use"

Thanks Richard, I'd be very proud to own a Newell. I've had my LXi for 8 years and am feeling the need for something different, but I'm also a member of POG! ;)

That's true, the high beam 90mm HID Xenon lamps aren't DOT legal, the low beams are. I've been running the high beams on the road for 5 years or so with no issues. I even have an annual Federal Safety Inspection done on my bus and it always passes.

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi, NC

[encantotom]

my front lights are hella 90mm H1 lamps. they dont make that model anymore with H1 bulbs and the new lenses are available with H9 bulbs which are a lot brighter.

as most of you know, the brightness is heavily influenced by the voltage at the bulb. with the engine on at fast idle AND the low beams on, i measured 14.1v at the alternator. with the lowbeams still on and engine still running, i measured 12.1volts at the actual bulb itself. that drop is enough to take the light intensity down to 67% according to charts i look at.

i would have thought that newell used relays for the lighting circuit by the time my coach was built, but evidently not.

so, with my lenses so pitted, i am probably going to replace them with new exact replacment Hella's. they are avail at rallylights.com for about $60 each. i will also wire up relays and run new wiring to the headlights. the H9 bulbs in the new replacement enclosures are alot brighter alone and with better voltage at the lights it should be a ton brighter.

have a look here. pretty interesting and mike is very nice to talk to on the phone.

http://www.headlightservices.com/Wiring.html


another project....

tom

[encantotom]

i stand partially corrected. there are two relays for the headlights but i am not quite sure how they are connected yet. i will have to trace them out. since there is a 2v drop to the lights, something isnt right yet.

i ordered the new lights so that will be a start.

tom

[davidmbrady]

Does your RV have a DRL (Daytime Running Light Module)? DRL modules power the headlamps to achieve 50% brightness. This could be the reduced voltage that you're measuring. When I upgraded to xenon HID's I had to eliminate the DRL. The ballast that power the xenon's isn't compatible with DRL's.

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi
NC

[encantotom]

the headlights are not on unless the headlight switch is on. so i do not have DRL's.

tom

[encantotom]

i decided to trace my headlight wiring out. it is wired pretty strangely. there are two relays but not as i would have wired them. i checked the voltages in and out of the power relays (2 of them). there was a .5-.6 volt drop across the relay with the engine running at fast idle and the headlights on. that isnt right. so i got a couple of new relays and put them in. no voltage drop at all there. so i gained 1/2 volt just from replacing both relays. the old ones must have been pitted and i bet they were original.

1/2 volt picks up about 12% in additional lumens.

it is easy to check. the relays are behind the passenger electrical kick panel in front of the passenger seat. remove the cover. on mine there are rows of relays. just pry the two lighting relays out enough where you can get a voltmeter probe on the terminals while it is still in the socket enough to work. do all of your measurements with the engine running at fast idle and the headlights initially on low beam

then measure the voltage on the 12v bus to see what the starting voltage is. then measure at the incoming terminal on the relay. on mine that was the one facing front or #30 on the relay. then measure the outgoing power on the relay (back one and #87 on the relay on mine). there should be no voltage drop between the two pins.

the other relay on mine is the hi/low beam and is triggered when the high beam is on. same thing there but check with high beam on. there will be less voltage on both because of more current draw with all 4 lights on, but it should be the same on both pins again.

i know everyone is hung up on only using hella or tyco (formerly bosch) relays, but i have used radioshack ones with no issues. and they were only 5 bucks. they are the standard 4 pin auto relay at 40 amps.

now to get the new lamps and brighter bulbs.....

i like to drive at night and love to have bright headlights.

tom

[encantotom]

pictures of the relay and the pitted contacts.

tom

[davidmbrady]

Tom,

You probably want a relay with a resistor or preferably a diode built in to limit or eliminate the flyback voltage when the coil is switched. It's the voltage spikes that are pitting the contacts:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Hella%2012V%20SPDT%20Relays.aspx

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=412

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge LXi
NC

[encantotom]

yea, i am very familiar with them. i will get some at some point. i should have had them ship them when i got the new headlights from rallylights.com, but i didnt.

the originals didnt have the diode. not that i shouldnt now...

good thing for others to know though.

the relays with diodes are not easy to find locally.

tom

[Richard and Rhonda]

you know you could have saved 5 bucks if you woulda just burnished the contacts on the the old ones

just sayin

don't laugh, it's gotten me out of a jam before

[encantotom]

ok, tonite i fully traced out the headlight wiring.

i think i am going to redo it. the way they did it is not optimum for keeping the voltage loss to a minimum, especially if you are using higher current drawing bulbs than original.

both the high and low beams are powered together through a single dc circuit breaker and fed with single 12gauge wire splitting off through the relays to all 4 headlights.

off of the low beam relay there is a single 12 gauge wire that goes to the passenger side low beam lamp and then pigtails off at the lamp and then goes to the driver side lamp.

same for the high beams. so a single 12 gauge wire feeding both sides.

there was a small green wire in the pigtail at the drivers side bright headlight underneath. i was puzzled till i traced it to the bright indicator lamp on the dash.

on each side they tied the high and low beam lamps together and grounded them to the frame.

i think i will run a breaker or fuse for high and low. then replace the single 87 relays with dual 87 relays and run new dedicate 12 g wires to all 4 headlights. i may run dedicated grounds, but not sure.

fun stuff.

later

tom

[lbrachfe]

Boy, I wish I accumulated 1/10th the knowledge of you guys in my 10 years of road travel. I'm sure the age of your coaches has made this knowledge base grow faster, but I really admire what Tom,Tuga and so many others take on. I thought I was pretty handy until I started reading all your posts. I have resolved several issues with your combined knowledge. I would also like to add that Tommy Keys,Mike Ellis, Jim G and several service people at Newell have been a terrific resource too.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Larry,

You may want to recall those accolades when you discover that most of the guys (and gal) on here are gearheads in their real lives. Mechanics, race car guys, engineers, and such. So, the coach is just a toy where we get to play with the stuff that we have to learn as part of our jobs.

And the second thing is that you don't get to see all the failed attempts, and solutions that didn't quite work out. And they are plentiful (at least in my case)

Seriously, this forum is a significant asset to any coach owner both in terms of technical support and moral support.

I hope to meet you at one of our unofficial rallys. I think you will find an immediate kindred spirit with most of the folks here. It's uncanny how well the group meshes.

[lbrachfe]

Thanks Richard,
I look forward to catching up to many of you on the road as well as and with the Newell owners I have already met there does appear with most that the "kindred spirit" is there. I was always a white collar in my working life, but spent a few years racing MINI Coopers which seems to satisfy more of my personal instincts.
See you down the road.....

[encantotom]

hi all,

larry, what richard said is so spot on. you dont see on the forum all the things i goofed up or did two or three times.

for example. i am replacing my headlights. i quickly measured them and assummed they were 90mm hellas. so i bought new ones, and when i took the old ones out i found out i had measured to quickly. they were actually 120mm hella's. so back the first ones went and i had to get the 120mm ones. and by the way the way newell installed them i had to drill all new mounting holes in the brackets for the new ones...

i drilled the holes and got them temporarily mounted till i get the new wiring finished and then spend the time to make up the aiming lines and aim the headlights.

later

tom

[tuga]

Larry,

Thanks for putting me in a class with Tom and Richard. The truth be known, I have a friend (Francis) who is the guru behind my repairs and renovations. Without him I couldn't do squat!! I have been owning Newells for 20 years so I have learned a little - just enough to get in trouble.

Tom is right; we usually get a repair job right after going to Lowe's or Home Depot at least 6 times.

But we're having fun!

[chockwald]

Tuga I wish it only took me 5, or 6 visits to Home Depot/Lowes to get it right.....when I was at Tom's I lost track of the number of times I visited AutoZone, Home Depot and Lowes, but I did eventually get it right. Tom I so identify with doing things too fast....what you described with the headlights sounds like something that might happen to me....lol! Glad to have you back in the USA for a while.

[lbrachfe]

Tom,
You are a never ending resource. I don't think I would have as much confidence doing my renovations without your posts.

[lbrachfe]

My "Guru" s are you guys and the 24 hour Newell Hotline...

[rheavn]

For you guys that get second looks from the wife as you are redoing a repair, let me give you some advice based on experience. During my time of running a race team my wife would catch me regularly refixing some thing I had just worked on. In racing all fixing of things is to make it work better. I quickly learned to reply to her questioning of why I was again working on some thing I had just fixed, that I was just trying to get it to work better. Newell is the same way. Yesterday she caught me working on one of my sewer valves that I had fixed. Her question was quickly answered with "I'm just trying to get it to work better". Works every time.........................or until she reads this post.