6V92 Water Pump R&R, Model # 23506623

[chockwald]

Had barely arrived in Tyler, TX at the home of my sister-in-law when the engine water pump had a massive internal seal failure and unloaded a few gallons of coolant on the ground....guess I couldn't have asked for a better "bad" situation....at least I wasn't somewhere in West Texas a 100 miles from anywhere when this happened. With this site's help I have located, and have ordered the replacement remanufactured water pump through Ebay, and should have in my hands by Thursday at the latest. Has anyone here had this specific pump replaced, or done the R&R yourself? I can see 2 of the 3 bolts that fasten the pump to the engine. Looks like I'll need to remove one of the fuel filters to get at the pump with clear access.....as you all know there are two filters....on my Newell there is one filter which has a mounting bracket bolted to the water pump....the other filter is remotely located on the forward wall of the driver side engine compartment. Anyway, looking for any pointers, or help. I have thought about calling in a mobile service via Good Sam ERS.....I am on the road, and I cannot move, so I believe I could get the labor covered by Good Sam ERS. There are three different water pumps that are used with 6V92's.....walking, standing and running. I have the running, and fortunately it is the easiest to find. The one my brother-in-law has on his Blue Bird is very hard to find, and cost him $500. The one I need can be had for $90 plus shipping and tax.....not too bad.

[77newell]

I did the R&R of the coolant pump on my 6V92 a couple years ago. I followed the DD manual. The manual shows three bolts holding the assembly to the engine, two long ones and one short one. the locations of the different lengths are obvious. I do not recall the details of removal, I just moved stuff as needed.

The installation is as follows:
1) affix seal ring to pump body.
2) Mount pump so gear meshes with gear in engine and dowel, install bolts lightly.
3) Replace hoses and clamps, tighten after next steps
4) check gear backlash (setting is 1-6 thousandths). The manual isn't clear where to measure the backlash so I used a dial at the outer edges of the impeller.
5) adjust gear backlash by rotating pump around dowel, then tighten bolts
6) install pump cover
7) tighten hose clamps
8) replace items taken loose and refill radiator

The job wasn't hard except for finding a way to collect all the coolant for reuse, ended up with several 5 gallon plastic water carriers.

hopefully this helps
Jon
77 Newell, Civic toad

[chockwald]

Jon, thank you very much for the detailed description of your R&R. I count 3 bolts too.....one is not directly visible, but I know where it should be. I'm sure it will be easier to get at it when I remove the fuel filter and bracket. Will keep you posted on my progress!

[prairieschooner]

If the Bolts go into a Water Jacket, it is best to Seal them with something like Permatex or Silicone. Personally I like Permatex #2.
Wet the O-Ring with a little Engine Oil when assembling, you could use a little Lithium Grease if the O-Ring wont stay in place.

[77newell]

I don't recall the bolts as going into a wet section of the block and I don't recall putting any sealant on them. You will be able to tell by looking at the condition of the threaded end.

I think I did move the second fuel filter out of the way.

Jon
77 Coach with 6V92T towing a Civic

[chockwald]

There are no bolts going into a wet section.

[prairieschooner]

I haven't done this job yet so that is good news about the bolts not going into a water jacket.
Remember the trick about a little bit of grease to hold the O-Ring in place. It makes it much easier to not have to concern yourself with that or to get everything back together and then have a leak and find the O-Ring on the ground or.....

[chockwald]

Since I am going to be replacing most of the coolant, I am thinking of just draining out what is left, and putting in a brand new batch. What is the best coolant for a 2 stroke to mix 50/50 with distilled water? I'm thinking I'll need at least 10 gallons of coolant and 10 gallons of distilled water for a total of 20 gallons, right?

[prairieschooner]

Here you go;
http://www.newellclassic.com/forum/manuals-datasheets/3449-coolant-information-detroit-diesel-engines.html

This is the Bulletin on Coolants and look at page 4 for the Chart on 92 Series Diesel Engines.

And be sure to use Distilled Water since that removes the unwanted Minerals. Page 11 states either Distilled or De-Ionized but I still prefer Distilled.

From page 6;
For best overall performance, a coolant consisting of 50% concentration of antifreeze (50% antifreeze, 50% water) is recommended.

[rheavn]

Power Cool is fairly inexpensive. The last time I bought some it was under $10 a gal-that's less than I pay for my car's coolant. The Detroit Diesel part number for the concentrate(you mix) is 23512138. They also sell premixed. My local Freightliner dealer sells it.

[prairieschooner]

Clarke,
I forgot to advise you to use Anti-Sieze on the Bolts if you don't need to seal them. It isn't always necessary but it does help if you need to get them off in the future. Also a little Lube will help get the correct Torque on the Bolts;
Here is a link to a Chart;
http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html

[chockwald]

OK, Steve, thank you....I've located a dealer (Stewart & Stevenson) in Longview, TX....about 30 minutes from where I am....they have both the concentrate and premixed in ample quantities. Anyone out there know for sure how many gallons I'll need to put in if completely empty? I'm guessing 20 gallons, at least that's what someone told me one time. Any confirmation will help! Just want to be sure to purchase enough so I don't have to make two trips....lol!

[chockwald]

Mr. Ward, thank you for the torque chart....

[rheavn]

I could tell you for a series 60. As a suggestion maybe a call to Newell would be appropriate.

[77newell]

I put Powercool plus distilled water in 8 years ago and it still tests good with the test strips. I have a filter to collect particles that may occur. My 35 foot coach took 23 gallons.

Jon
77 Coach with Civic toad

[chockwald]

Jon, I'm inclined to believe that is close to the correct amount. I'll get 12 gallons of concentrate and mix my own with distilled water, and have a little left over.

[prairieschooner]

Keep in mind that you may need to vent the block. Air can get trapped and keep you from being able to fill the cooling system properly. I usually will fill the radiator and wait a day or so to allow the coolant to level out.

I do like your idea of knowing how much coolant is needed so you have a good idea when the system is full. Have you tried contacting Newell? They may have records on the 6V92.

[folivier]

Now's a good time to add an overflow tank. I bought a 1-1/2 gallon one from US Plastics. Only had to heat weld a fitting on the top for the hose.
Works great to keep air out of the system.

[Neweller]

Forest, that is a great idea about adding an overflow bottle to help with the air and be professionally updated.

Clarke, I would take Forest's cue on this one.

[chockwald]

Just returned from Stewart & Stevenson in Longview, TX where we bought 12 gallons of Power Cool Concentrate. Then stopped off at the supermarket to buy 12 gallons of distilled water. So we now have 24 gallons of mixed coolant to add back in after we finish draining the rest of the coolant, and replace the water pump. Still awaiting delivery of the pump...."Out on truck for delivery".

Steve, how would I vent the block, other than what you did letting it sit for a day, or so letting the coolant level out?

[folivier]

Clarke, if you add an overflow tank that will fill your radiator whenever it burps out the air. Just have to keep the overflow tank full. After a few miles it should be filled.

[chockwald]

Forest, did you do like Richard and convert a bug sprayer pump bottle for use as an overflow tank? I actually have two of them, and really don't need two.

[77newell]

I can confirm that the overflow tank can deal with air trapped during a refill of coolant, I did not vent the engine. I had to add coolant to that tank following the first few times the engine ran after the refill. It didn't take more than a quart or so each time.

Jon
77 Coach Civic Toad

[folivier]

Leave it to an engineer to come up with that idea!
No, I bought a plastic tank and a weld on hose fitting from USplastics.com
I used a heat gun to weld the fitting on, and drilled a hole in the cap for the overflow hose from the radiator. The fitting I welded on is for the run over if the tank is overfilled. Probably don't need that, just need a way for the extra to run out.
I guess anything would work for getting the air out. If you just run the overflow hose from the radiator cap into a bucket with coolant and let the engine idle any air should burp out then when the engine cools off it should draw coolant back into the radiator.
With my engine I was adding coolant after each trip, with the overflow tank I haven't added coolant since I added the tank.

[chockwald]

I haven't really had to add coolant in a couple of years, so I'm not sure if I really need the overflow tank. Until the pump failed I hadn't seen the coolant level below the looking glass in a couple of years.

[prairieschooner]

Hopefully Richard will chime in, I usually just wait. Check the top of the Housing for the Thermostat, there may be a Petcock there, if so that would be a place to start.

[chockwald]

There are at least two petcock valves in the area of the water pump that I can see. Just got notice from UPS that the pump has arrived in Tyler (1am last night) and is out on the truck for delivery as of 4:05am, so should have the pump sometime today and will begin the R&R process. Removed the rest of the old coolant yesterday afternoon. I have 12 gallons of Power Cool sitting in my trailer along with 12 gallons of distilled water ready to go in as soon as I can get the new pump installed.

[GORDON HUMMEL]

After all the discussions on leaking water pumps, I decided to check mine again. It was a year ago when I first noticed the problem in Vegas & replaced the upper hose & no leaks. I just finished up putting air bags in the front yesterday.
.......................IT'S LEAKING AGAIN..........................
Planned on leaving for the left coast Tuesday, so we will see !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having a water pump flown in Monday

[chockwald]

UPS came through yesterday with the delivery of our replacement pump around Noon. I immediately started to remove the failed pump by first removing the fuel filter that is mounted on the side of the pump to give better access to the 5 different hose connections, and the three 5/8" bolts that hold the pump in place. The easy part was getting the 3 bolts removed......and I thought that would be the hard part....haha! Getting at the screws that hold each hose in place was the difficult part, but using the method patients and gently massaging of the parts it came lose.....well, I had to cut one hose connection.....the bottom one that is about 4" long. I ran over to Napa and got a replacement cut in just a few minutes, so it was worth it, because by cutting that connection the pump then came free and it was just a matter of maneuvering it out. Then I had to remove to plumbing type fixtures from the old pump to transfer to the new pump, as well as remove two plugs from the new pump where these two fittings would be installed. This proved to be the most difficult part of the process, but, again using patience and proper leverage, as well as my old trusty Black and Decker Workmate bench as a vice I succeeded in removing the fittings without damaging them, and installing them on the new pump with a liberal amount of pipe dope. At that point it was around 4pm, and I was thinking I would be happy if that was as far as I got, but I decided to see if I could at least get the pump back into place, and finish it up today (Saturday). As it turned out I was able to get the pump bolted back in place, and all but one hose reconnected as the sun set. I have one more hose connection to secure, plus torque the 5/8" bolts using the chart Steve Ward provided, plus re-install the fuel filter, and then add 23 gallons of Power Cool.

One pleasant discovery was that I apparently have just enough of the proper tools for this kind of job......I did wish I had a little larger pipe wrench, but by adding a pipe to the end of the wrench for extended leverage I was able to break the fittings loose. I sprayed white lithium grease in the channel on the engine side of the pump to help hold the "O" ring in place, and also on the inside of the hoses to help slip them back in place more easily...worked like a charm.

Of course the final test is turning over the engine and hoping there are no leaks. If there are leaks then it will take a little more patience and massaging, but I know I'll get there eventually. It has been nice not have have any time pressures this week as I waited for the delivery from California. I would not have had that luxury had this happened in the vast spaces of West Texas...I would have been at the mercy of someone else's time frame, and pricing for a replacement pump.

As it turns out the bearings on the old pump appear to be fine, so the core would appear to be a candidate for re-manufacture. I'll check into the cost to do that, and if it is reasonable then I'll have a spare pump for the future, although, if the new one lasts 30 years like the first one, then I may not live long enough to use it.

[prairieschooner]

All in all it sounds like a good day. Next time use a little dish soap on the hoses.

[chockwald]

Finished buttoning up everything this morning and began to refill the radiator. After every 2 gallons I would look inside the driver's side engine bay door to see if anything was leaking. At about the 10 gallon mark I began to see a lot of leaking.....uuggghhh!! Couldn't tell where it was coming from, so I drained all 10 gallons back out and began unbuttoning everything so I could get an idea where the leak was coming from. After a couple of hours I determined that the leak was coming from the top hose above the water pump. On the side away from view the hose had not quite seated when I re-installed the new pump. I didn't want to remove the whole pump to get at that hose so I spent a couple of hours "massaging" the 4 inch connector hose down far enough to seat it with the hose clamp. I re-buttoned everything up and used my 8mm fitting with a ratchet to tighten down all the hose clamps TIGHT! Put the 10 gallons back in and saw a small trickle coming from the top hose, so I continued to tighten both clamps until it stopped. I have topped off the radiator and still NO leaking! I will recheck coolant level in the morning to see if it has settled anymore, and add as necessary. Then I will start up the 6V92 and see what happens. Long day of putting my body in awkward positions....going to grill some steaks and drink some Margaritas......

[chockwald]

Checked the coolant level this morning, and no change. Fired up the 6V92 and it purrrrred to life....no leaks. Ran until it came up close to operating temperature....didn't want to disturb the neighbors tooo much this morning. But I am very happy that all has turned out well....we arrived here last Sunday with our tails between our legs.....AGAIN....but have successfuly negotiated another mechanical fix.

[chockwald]

Drove down to Austin, TX today and arrived around 4pm. The trip was without incident, and there were no mechanical failures while parking either! The first 20 minutes my eyes were riveted on the temp gauge looking for any sign of a problem. I began to relax after that and just enjoyed the drive along secondary roads (155 to 79 to 84 to I-35 south). I really love Texas secondary roads! This will be my last post on the 6V92 water pump issue as it appears to be resolved. Thanks again to Tom for helping me find the replacement pump on Ebay.

[tuga]

Clark,

I have a Newell acquaintance who travels the back roads instead of the interstates, he loves it. He tries to stay on US highways because most of them have a good paved shoulder and many are four lane (especially in Texas).

I have done that a few times and sometimes you run thru neat little towns that have some beautiful old buildings, brick streets etc. When the weather is right, it is fun to stop and walk around and go into some of the shops. It is amazing what you can find; some junk and some not! It makes for some good memories.

[chockwald]

Tuga, you are right about the shoulders and many have 4 lanes.....and little traffic!!! On the way back from the Austin rally Tom and I drove secondary roads all day the first day over to I-10. What a fun trip, and there were a number of cool towns we passed through that I would have liked to explore. We did stop at one town for a Mexican lunch, and it was amazing!

[Neweller]

Glad it all worked out for you and the trip went safely.