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Brad Townsend
03-09-2012, 07:06 PM
Why do we need a converter? As in converter/charger. We are off grid for 6 months a year and do just fine. I need to replace my converter/charger and am wondering why not just get a nice 3 stage battery charger.

Brad

chockwald
03-09-2012, 08:34 PM
You can buy a really nice Progressive Dynamics 3 stage charge/converter for not much more than a good 3 stage battery charger.....check Ebay....there is an 80amp right now for $178.30 including shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-AMP-PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-PD9280-RV-CONVERTER-CHARGER-/160722286327?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Acc essories&hash=item256bcb76f7&vxp=mtr#ht_757wt_842

prairieschooner
03-09-2012, 10:47 PM
Be careful, that link is to a re-manufactured converter. Also the battery cable connections are with a set screw connector and it does not use a lug or cable terminal (not sure if it take a large battery cable). That type of connection will cut some of the strands of some battery cables. I talked to this manufacturer and they stated that they did have one that accepts lugs but it was allot more because it was "marine grade".

I as well am curious why a converter and not a good battery charger.

Brad Townsend
03-10-2012, 12:34 AM
I am hoping that someone from Newell will comment on this. I have asked a couple solar installers and they don't know! Hmm.

chockwald
03-10-2012, 03:31 AM
Steve, I have the 80amp Progressive Dynamics Converter/Charger. It takes pretty large gauge wire. I installed it over 3 years ago, and have had no problems. Has saved me a lot in new batteries....the old batter boiler was killing my batteries one at a time. Mine has the set screws. Personally, the "remanufactured description" does not bother me....if the guy has a 100% rating, then the odds are he is not putting bad products out there.

Obviously, the only time you need a charger is when you are plugged in, and relying upon that as a source to recharge your batteries.

tuga
03-10-2012, 02:07 PM
I am hoping that someone from Newell will comment on this. I have asked a couple solar installers and they don't know! Hmm.

A quick call to Newell may answer your question: 1 888 9NEWELL

I always thought that a converter was a battery charger with 3 stages; charge, accept, and float. It would be interesting to hear what Newell service says about converters.

prairieschooner
03-10-2012, 02:36 PM
Clarke,
There may be nothing wrong with "re-manufactured" but it is what it is. Have you checked the voltage and amperage to insure that you are getting what you should?
OK so let's start with the basics...Flooded Lead Acid and AGM (not Gel) should have 14.4 Volts for Bulk and Acceptance and 13.3 Volts for Float Phases.

I don't know what size the original Converter/Charger was but I suspect it was much less than 80 Amp. Now it really depends on what size wire you use from the Charger to the Batteries. If your Batteries are in the front like mine and your Battery Charger is in the rear then there would be approximately 80' of cable (to and from). I would chose at least 4 AWG to limit the Voltage Drop to less than 3% (14.4 Volts - 3% (.432 Volts) = 13.96 Volts at the Batteries. This is not enough to properly charge the batteries. If the wire is say 6 AWG then it would be more like a 10% Voltage Drop and then it would be 14.4 Volts - 10% (1.44 Volts) = 12.96 Volts at the Batteries.

OK now if I haven't lost you yet ....the Voltage Drop will effect the Charge of the Batteries. If you do not have a good connection it will as well effect the Voltage Drop even more. That is why I do not like that type of Terminal, just like I do not like Wire Nuts, on our Coaches because of the Vibrations that the Wire will be exposed to. If the Set Screw Connection makes contact with the wire, it could also damage the wire.

chockwald
03-10-2012, 06:51 PM
My old Battery Boiler was 70amps.....Progressive offers a 60amp and an 80 amp, so I went with the 80 amp. Tom and Richard thought that was fine at the time.

77newell
03-10-2012, 07:04 PM
7 years ago I bought a rebuilt converter from Progressive Dynamics. It still works fine and my batteries have lasted 8 years and are still testing good. The unit I bought has the desulphation mode and I think that has contributed to my batterys' longevity.

77 Newell, Civic Toad

chockwald
03-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Mine has the desulfating mode also, and I am looking forward to extended battery life.

prairieschooner
03-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Maybe you misunderstood me. I didn't say that these weren't any good simply that it was re-manufactured and that I do not like that type of terminal for the battery cables. Progressive Dynamics does make a charger/converter that will accept a crimp on cable terminal but it is more $$$ and it is Marine Grade (set screw type connections are not allowed on boats). When I looked at this option it made more sense to just have an Inverter/Charger mounted as close as possible to the batteries.

Most of the newer chargers do have what is called an Equalizing Phase. The Heart and Xantrex inverters that have a Charging Phase also have the Equalizing Phase. The PowerPulse does something very similar only continuously.

We are getting off topic though because the question was "why converter"?
I don't use one, I charge my batteries with the Solar panels, watch the DC Voltage and turn the Inverter/Charger on only when needed.

chockwald
03-10-2012, 09:41 PM
No misunderstanding Steve. I know your preference for a different connection option. Just not letting perfect be the enemy of really, really good.

express1
03-12-2012, 12:13 AM
Clarke,
There may be nothing wrong with "re-manufactured" but it is what it is. Have you checked the voltage and amperage to insure that you are getting what you should?
OK so let's start with the basics...Flooded Lead Acid and AGM (not Gel) should have 14.4 Volts for Bulk and Acceptance and 13.3 Volts for Float Phases.

I don't know what size the original Converter/Charger was but I suspect it was much less than 80 Amp. Now it really depends on what size wire you use from the Charger to the Batteries. If your Batteries are in the front like mine and your Battery Charger is in the rear then there would be approximately 80' of cable (to and from). I would chose at least 4 AWG to limit the Voltage Drop to less than 3% (14.4 Volts - 3% (.432 Volts) = 13.96 Volts at the Batteries. This is not enough to properly charge the batteries. If the wire is say 6 AWG then it would be more like a 10% Voltage Drop and then it would be 14.4 Volts - 10% (1.44 Volts) = 12.96 Volts at the Batteries.

OK now if I haven't lost you yet ....the Voltage Drop will effect the Charge of the Batteries. If you do not have a good connection it will as well effect the Voltage Drop even more. That is why I do not like that type of Terminal, just like I do not like Wire Nuts, on our Coaches because of the Vibrations that the Wire will be exposed to. If the Set Screw Connection makes contact with the wire, it could also damage the wire.

Steve, could you do this again? but with diagrams:o:o
Just keepin it lite........

prairieschooner
03-12-2012, 12:37 AM
sure but it may take a little lubrication:thumbup: but just for medicinal purposes.

Brad Townsend
03-13-2012, 01:38 PM
So I am wondering if the new newell's have converter/chargers!

fulltiming
03-13-2012, 10:10 PM
The new Newells use two Outback 2800 watt inverter/chargers. They use 2-8D AGM chassis batteries, 6-8D AGM house batteries, 400 amp alternator, 35 amp alternator on the generator and PowerPlus battery conditioners/equalizers.

Brad Townsend
03-13-2012, 10:22 PM
Thanks for the info Michael.
Is it my computer or the website? There is no pics on the avatars.
Brad

fulltiming
03-13-2012, 11:46 PM
Looks that way on mine also.

Richard and Rhonda
03-14-2012, 12:51 AM
I don't think the question was ever answered, what is the difference between a converter and a charger? In generic terms, a converter converts 110 AC to 12V DC up to it's amp rating. No batteries are required. A charger also converts the 110 AC to 12 DC but has usually has smart circuitry to alter the amperage based on the voltage of the batteries.

Why would this make any difference? I don't think the chargers like to run without a battery bank. I don't know why. And the converters, without some smart circuitry can cook the batteries.

And I am probably totally wrong.

Brad Townsend
03-14-2012, 02:06 AM
So far this is what I have found out:
Especially for those with a proper sized solar system to include a good 3 stage charge controller you don't really need a converter/charger but if you do have one you could leave it pluged in to the system as a back up for a just in-case situation. I don't think that you need to be concerned about the setting being set to low because the solar system will trump the charger on the converter. Our solar systems are running alllll the time, if it gets stormy for days you could have a small back up charger. I have a 40 amp 3 stage clip on charger made by Xantrex. You really do not need to buy a$200 to $600 converter/charger. I am in the process of up grading my system after re-evaluating what I have. I found a blog where this fellow is quite informative and I hesitate to pass his site on as he is quite rough with his words and is quite angry with the mainstream solar installers. I listen to what he has to say and take from it what makes sense. He has shown me a huge savings on what I can do to make my system much more efficient.

Thats my 3 more cents worth.

Brad

chockwald
03-14-2012, 12:59 PM
Brad, I would be interested in the information on the blog.....I don't use rough language, but it doesn't make me uncomfortable. That being said, we have a separate inverter (not connected in anyway to our Progressive Dynamics converter/charger at therear of the coach in the electrical bay) placed at the front the coach in the bay on the drivers side opposite from where the two 8d house batteries are. When we are dry camping and turn on the inverter we must unplug the converter/charger as it will attempt to use the current coming through the inverter from the house batteries to charge all four batteries! I need to figure out how to install some sort of interrupt switch to disengage the charger without having to go out the electrical bay and manually unplug it.

When we are "plugged in" I have the coverter/charger plugged in and it throws a charge at all the batteries, and the house batteries, specifically, at the same time the solar panels are throwing a charge through the charge controller.

We have gone through a two week stretch with a lot of HEAVY cloud cover, and high humidity so we have been plugged in most of the time when we are parked to run A/C. Our generator is fueled by propane, so it is quite expensive to operate for long periods at 1/2 gallon per hour consumption rate. We are only travelling about 100+ miles per day, so we are parked for 15-18 hours at a time....at about $2.00/hr it costs as much as a spot at most RV parks. It looks like we are in for a stretch of sunny days and lower humidity, finally, so we are hoping we will be able to live more off the solar panels.....in comfort! When it gets over 95% humidity, no matter what the temperature, I need A/C...lol!

chockwald
03-14-2012, 01:00 PM
Brad, I would be interested in the information on the blog.....I don't use rough language, but it doesn't make me uncomfortable. That being said, we have a separate inverter (not connected in anyway to our Progressive Dynamics converter/charger at therear of the coach in the electrical bay) placed at the front the coach in the bay on the drivers side opposite from where the two 8d house batteries are. When we are dry camping and turn on the inverter we must unplug the converter/charger as it will attempt to use the current coming through the inverter from the house batteries to charge all four batteries! I need to figure out how to install some sort of interrupt switch to disengage the charger without having to go out the electrical bay and manually unplug it.

When we are "plugged in" I have the coverter/charger plugged in and it throws a charge at all the batteries, and the house batteries, specifically, at the same time the solar panels are throwing a charge through the charge controller.

We have gone through a two week stretch with a lot of HEAVY cloud cover, and high humidity so we have been plugged in most of the time when we are parked to run A/C. Our generator is fueled by propane, so it is quite expensive to operate for long periods at 1/2 gallon per hour consumption rate. We are only travelling about 100+ miles per day, so we are parked for 15-18 hours at a time....at about $2.00/hr it costs as much as a spot at most RV parks. It looks like we are in for a stretch of sunny days and lower humidity, finally, so we are hoping we will be able to live more off the solar panels.....in comfort! When it gets over 95% humidity, no matter what the temperature, I need A/C...lol!

Brad Townsend
03-14-2012, 01:35 PM
Thats werd about the charger running off the inverter. Maybe you could just disconnect it with the breaker that controls that outlet.
Check your email for additional info.

Brad