1974 Classic information request

['TIL MONDAY]

I recently purchased a 1974 Newel at an auction in Madera, CA. I’ve always wanted a diesel pusher but, never thought I would be able to afford a Newell. Well I saw this older one and I wanted to make sure it wouldn’t go to cheap (unless it was to me).
It runs. I drove it home. It needs some updating on the inside and the frig needs to be replaced. Other than the frig and freezer everything seems to work. I met the previous owner and he says it’s safe to go anywhere.

The engine is a cat 1160. As I research it seems that an 1160 is a version of a 3208? Is this correct? I would be interested in hearing your experiences with this engine.

Also, I need to replace the rear window. The glass is cracked and about to fall out. Can I just take the frame out and have the glass replaced?

Is there anyway to get an owners manual from 1974?

Responses to any or all of my questions will be greatly appreciated.

[john wayne]

'Til Monday,
I've owned a 74 40' for 10 years. It has the 1160 Cat, Allison MT42 six speed automatic. I have found the Cat to be very reliable yet pretty slow in a climb. A Caterpillar mechanic told me how to get more horsepower by doing an adjustment to the fuel govenor. They are not allowed to do it and if by some chance you're dealing with an engine under warranty, you have to break a lead seal to get to the govenor. I made the adjustment as he said and the results was incredible. I get almost 10 mpg if I stay under 60 mph and that towing a Toyota P/U. It's got almost 200,000 miles on it, never needed repairs, and I can drive coast to coast using only one quart of oil. I've replaced all the windows with aftermarkets from Peninsula Glass, Vancouver, Wa. I don't have a rear window. Completely gutted the interior and with the exception of the cabinets. Had some rust problems in the basement due to a leak above the drivers window that required some work. There is no owners manuals but you can get engine and trans. manuals from the manufacturer. I have found this rig to be especially easy to work on. Newell used Ford for many of its electrical chassis related components. Good luck. Feel free to contact me if any questions

['TIL MONDAY]

Thanks for your insight John. It’s good to know that someone has had positive experiences with this engine and transmission. I know my engine is the same as yours and I'm pretty sure the tyranny is too. My coach is 5’ shorter than yours so it probably weighs less and I’ll be towing a Daihatsu Rocky which doesn’t weigh much at all.

I want to have a friend who is a diesel mechanic check out the engine for me and hopefully he’ll know how to adjust the fuel governor. I also want to replace a couple of the windows besides the rear window. I’ll check out, Peninsula Glass.

Thanks again

['TIL MONDAY]

I found an Engine Manual for $58.95, Shop Manual for $39.95, or a Repair Service Maual for $29.95.

The engine manual is the most expensive but, it looks like a thin paper back, almost like a magazine. The other two are thick hard back books. Which do I need?

[Neweller]

Hi John, any idea of the HP or Torque before and after the governor adjustment? It would be interesting to know more about the 1160 Cat. And these have a six speed auto? Wow, sounds pretty cool.

I wonder what years they ran that motor in the Newell's?

Ken:)

[fulltiming]

The 1160 was the forerunner of the 3208. It had the same block and heads but different front timing housing and a different fuel injection pump. Here is a link for someone that has some of the major parts for the 1160. http://www.mainetractors.com/caterpillar/caterpillar_1160_engine.htm

[jwe648]

We I just completed a round trip Shakedown In our Ole' 74' with the CAT 1160 we went up near Sedona ... up & down some fairly serious grades. The engine & six speed tranny worked well as did the retarder coming down. No brakes needed. The important thing was to keep it within the sweet spot in the rpm range which turned out to be between 2200 & 2500. It held a solid 40+ going up and the temps were all very good. Looks like I got 10+ mpg and no notable oil burn. I was very happy with the results as I have worked on the restortaion since July and the coach had set several years previously.. Still more to do but road/camp worthy.

If anyone needs info on the 74' I have accumilated a little info I can share..

Regards,

Jimmy

[Neweller]

Hi Jimmy, sounds like your coach is coming along great. Is this the same coach that we have in the gallery? It looks like it to me. I was trying to figure out the previous owner for reference? Does this Newell have springs in the front or air bags? A lot of the coaches that had the frontend cosmetic upgrades got the suspension done at the same time.

Thanks,
Ken W.

[jwe648]

I have leaf springs on the Front with some sort of a preloaded spring centering devise connected to the backing plates. I am a little more than interested in the rear suspension if you know the coach. It has leaf springs & four airbags that are off a bow spring of sorts.. I haven't seen anything like it. One of the airbags looks a little tired however, they all are holding air. I haven't found the schrader valve to check. There was an aircompressor mounted in the left rear compartment along with some sort of tank. The hoses were broken so I've pulled it out untill I figure out what it was for? The coach came out of South Texas, the previous owner passed. I know the original owner lived in Pagosa Springs, Co. One of the owners was in some sort of unregulated ag trade where the DEA owned it for a while then sold at a sherrif's sale.

Jimmy

[Neweller]

Jimmy, I don't really know that coach other than I was following some of your post and thinking I recognize it from the gallery. Does it have the changed over headlights like the '75 in the gallery? If it does, then I would be pretty certain that the previous owner before passing uploaded those pics. That is a funny story about the owner out of Pagosa Springs. I'm only a little over a 100 miles from there. And now he would probably in a legal AG business. lol

From my understanding Newell ran the same suspension you have from '77 back. Some 78's I think were the leaf front and air/spring rear. I had a '76 with the set up and thought it handle very nice. It had a very tight feel vs. the bag front being a little more mushy. There were supposedly some cracking issues on the mounting areas of the rear suspension and that is why most were upgraded to bag. Now, that was usually on the 38-40' coaches I believe. The '76 I had, was super clean and it was a 39'.

I'll look under the '78 that I'm working on tomorrow and see what I remember being the difference. I want to double check what I stated. You may have the updated rear?

Ken W.

[James Tuckness]

Sounds like the rear on my 71 30'. Air compresor provided air to the bags using a linkage from top of axel to air valves on each side. This allowed the system to compensate to changes in weight of coach as fuel and water were used or bagage and passenger load changed. Richardson air ride suspension I think was the name of the system. My air compressor also provides for the air over hydrolic brake system on this coach.

James

[jwe648]

I actually posted the photos on the website just after purchase last July. The coach had made it to Mesa from Texas where it had been sold to a dealer. Anything on the rear suspension would be great. I would like to replace all 4 airbags and hook them up properly. However, I will say it does ride nice as is.

Jimmy

[Neweller]

Jimmy, I wanted to let you know as soon as I throw the batteries back in the coach, I'll fire it up and let the bags raise the coach up so I can get underneath. Hopefully I can remember the difference in the suspension. Didn't want you to think I forgot about you.

Ken W.

[jwe648]

Jimmy, I wanted to let you know as soon as I throw the batteries back in the coach, I'll fire it up and let the bags raise the coach up so I can get underneath. Hopefully I can remember the difference in the suspension. Didn't want you to think I forgot about you.

Ken W.

Thanks Ken Working off my short list this weekend from the shakedown trip.

[fulltiming]

Ken, be careful down there. I know you are award but a BlueBird owner was crushed to death last year when the suspension dropped on him. We have all (especially me) done stupid things in the rush to do something quickly.

[Neweller]

Michael, thanks for the reminder, I'll put some safety blocks on the suspension. When I did the oil change, I didn't need to raise the coach. Been nice to have access to a pit wouldn't it? That's another dream item for you man cave owners. lol:p

[jwe648]

I took a little juant up the mountian for the 4th for cooler weather and to watch the fire works.. Enroute I have to traverse some fairly long steep climbs 7` for many miles. As I was going up the last and steepest grade ( I was down to 30 mph) the water temp and xmision temp had climbed to 210/240 as I normaly see 175/190.. Lucky for me or the traffic depends on how you look at it, there was a grade pullout at the top. I was steaming pretty good.. ( Even the freindly patrol stood back) I cooled things down looking for a busted hose or something.. all was OK... The coolent was blowing from the radiator cap... The cap is of the type that just locks in the neck internally not a pressure type cap. I refilled the coolent (about a gallon) and everthing seemed Ok..

So I've been fetting that Newell had built this with a non-pressurized coolent system.. which didn't make much sense... Anyway..

Here is the answer...
The 1160 CAT instlation has a 7 lb pressurized system with a shunt type radiator and the filler cap is just that.. a sealed cap. The pressure relief valve is mounted into the upper tank on the backside of the radiator with the overflow tube along the backside.. so the answer to my problem is to replace the cap (it's loose) so the system can pressurize and raise the boiling point of the coolent.. It looks like an old tractor radiator cap.. hope I can find one.

In my fretting I considered that maybe I had the wrong coolent as I have regular automotive type antifreeze..(what it came with) But the 1160 CAT books calls for that.. so I'm going to add "Diesel Water Wetter" which is supposed to help keep things about 20` cooler..

If you see anything amiss with my thinking on this..don't be bashfull..
It's a long trek for a 36 year old coach towing a auto across some fairly lonely country to Redmond in Aug..

Jimmy

[chockwald]

Is this additive something that can be used with two stroke Detroit Diesels?

[prairieschooner]

Jimmy,
We had to "learn how to drive" when we took our first trip. What I found out was that we could climb just about any grade (even with the car in tow) by simply gearing down, thanks Larry Bell. What I want to do is keep the RPM around 1800-2000 with our V-6 (6V92) and sometimes this means climbing the grade at 25-30 MPH. The good part about that is that I am at the right speed to go down the grade when we get to the top.
Yes the Coolant can make a big difference---what ratio of Coolant to Water did you go with? Some Hot Rodders will run only around 25% Coolant in the Summer just to help cooling, you need to correct this when it starts to get cold! Remember to use a Coolant that is compatible to your Engine and Distilled Water.
The Radiator needs to be cleaned every so often on our older coaches. I use Simple Green and spray a heavy concentration from the Engine Side, allow it to sit for a while then spray the Water from the outside of the Coach towards the Engine so that I push the gunk back the way that it came in.
You are correct about the Pressure --- Good Find! I have found that our Radiator may look low when cold but after it heats up the level should be in the Sight Glass. This was another "learning curve" when we went to Creed I over-filled our radiator and the V-6 burped it out.
I have since learned much about our Prairie Schooner.

[chockwald]

Hey Steve....I'm getting ready to change my coolant out....what is the proper mix for summer?

[jwe648]

There are two versions here's the link to the info:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=75&pcid=10

Looks like it would work...

Is this additive something that can be used with two stroke Detroit Diesels?

[jwe648]

Thanks for the info... I've read the manual and what CAT recommends is to start the climp at 100% and shift down at 80% and so on.. for me that means start the climb @ 2850 and down shift @ 2200.. going down the hill not to exceed 3000 rpm that seems to do well along with the retarder .. I've also figured out that sixth gear means 62-65 mph fifth means 47-50 forth means 38-45 and third means 28-35... below that you may as well walk... The manual says if you cannot accelerate your in to tall a gear below 100%... makes sense..

Good idea on reducing the mix water cools better I'm using a NAPA extended life pre-mix and I believe that is a 50/50..
I took a look inside the radiator it's nice & clean.. found an overhaul tag so not many miles since then..



Jimmy,
We had to "learn how to drive" when we took our first trip. What I found out was that we could climb just about any grade (even with the car in tow) by simply gearing down, thanks Larry Bell. What I want to do is keep the RPM around 1800-2000 with our V-6 (6V92) and sometimes this means climbing the grade at 25-30 MPH. The good part about that is that I am at the right speed to go down the grade when we get to the top.
Yes the Coolant can make a big difference---what ratio of Coolant to Water did you go with? Some Hot Rodders will run only around 25% Coolant in the Summer just to help cooling, you need to correct this when it starts to get cold! Remember to use a Coolant that is compatible to your Engine and Distilled Water.
The Radiator needs to be cleaned every so often on our older coaches. I use Simple Green and spray a heavy concentration from the Engine Side, allow it to sit for a while then spray the Water from the outside of the Coach towards the Engine so that I push the gunk back the way that it came in.
You are correct about the Pressure --- Good Find! I have found that our Radiator may look low when cold but after it heats up the level should be in the Sight Glass. This was another "learning curve" when we went to Creed I over-filled our radiator and the V-6 burped it out.
I have since learned much about our Prairie Schooner.

[prairieschooner]

Jimmy,
The premixed stuff concerns me a little but that is because I like to be sure what I am using and just do not know what they mean by "de-mineralized". I just prefer to use distilled water then I know what I am putting in the engine and radiator, these are expensive items if corrosion begins.
When we were climbing Slumgullion and Engineers pass as well as a couple of others I may have been able to walk faster but I was in 2nd Gear. The Prairie Schooner climbed the grades with no issue.
Clarke,
I am not sure what to advise you, I don't change the mix.

[chockwald]

OK, then what is the mixture you run all the time (% of coolant to water)?

[Richard and Rhonda]

Demineralized means the water ran through an ion exchange bed to knock out the minerals. Just as effective as distilling and a lot cheaper. The technology is common where super clean water is required like in the medical device and pharmaceutical industry.

Chuck, best to stick with the 50/50 mix. Steve is right you can get slightly better cooling with a lesser mix of glycol but, and it's a big but, you have to remember to change it back to 50/50 for any cold climate. The trick is how to you know you have 50/50? Either some algebraic calculations assuming you know the true capacity of your system or trial and error using a hydrometer (not the same one you use for batteries though)

[prairieschooner]

Clarke,
I would recommend that you set your Coolant up for the Temperature Ranges that you will expect. The Coolant has a Chart that describes the recommended % for the Temperature expected. I think that I am using about a 40% Coolant to 60% Distilled Water (sorry Richard I still don't an ion exchange having used it in a prior career). Please keep in mind that I travel into Mexico and Arizona in the Winter, if I wanted temps below freezing I would stay home.