Mastervolt is a Leader in Lithium-ION 12 and 24 Volt Battery Technology for RV Marine

[Neweller]

Just doing a little more research on batteries since it is a hot-topic button and thinking back to the post where Sean (NewellCrazy) shared the information about the latest Lithium-ion (LiFePO4) or LFP technology and how great the advantages of these batteries would be in our luxury coaches. I would have to believe that Newell Coach will be jumping on this bandwagon relatively soon since a competitor and friend over at Liberty Coach is enjoying the success of them. Thanks to our member "jack14r" for originally sharing this.

There have been a couple of US companies that were pushing this battery technology that were financed by our recent government prosperity investment that have sort of went out of business, I've heard the company was bought out for a song by another company whom plans on moving forward with the venture. The pricing is already dropping on these batteries and will continue just like plasma or led TV's. So, they will probably be in most our reaches in relatively short order.

I'm waiting to here from someone whom has taking the plunge on this upgrade. Just check out the specification in this pdf.

http://hybridenergy.com.au/pdf/li-ion24v.pdf

[ccjohnson]

Hopefully these are not the same batteries being used in 787 Dreamliners!

[Starvin Marvin]

I have a brother in the yacht business and he has told me that the Mastervolt lithion-Ion batteries are a very good product. I had asked the same thing in reference to the 787 issue and he told me they are not the same brand or exact same technology. He also told me he has never heard of a fire starting with a Mastervolt battery in a marine application.

[MrE]

I think I'll wait, I've had some lithium ION batteries that went bad in way less than 5 years. Had one in a camera that 'bulged' and I had to use pliers to remove it. Had another in my XM unit that did the same thing.

[NewellCrazy]

Lithium iron phosphate battery


The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery, also called LFP battery (with "LFP" standing for "lithium ferrophosphate"), is a type of rechargeable battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery), specifically a lithium-ion battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery), which uses LiFePO4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate) as a cathode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode) material. LiFePO4 batteries have somewhat lower energy density (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density) than the more common LiCoO2 design found in consumer electronics, but offers longer lifetimes, better power density (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_density) (the rate that energy can be drawn from them) and are inherently safer. LiFePO4 is finding a number of roles in vehicle use and backup power.

Most lithium-ion batteries (Li-ion) used in consumer electronics products use lithium cobalt oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_cobalt_oxide) cathodes (LiCoO2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-ion#Cathodes)). Other varieties of lithium-ion batteries include lithium manganese oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithium_manganese_oxide&action=edit&redlink=1) (LiMn2O4) and lithium nickel oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithium_nickel_oxide&action=edit&redlink=1) (LiNiO2). The batteries are named after the material used for their cathodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-ion#Cathodes); the anodes are generally made of carbon and a variety of electrolytes are used.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

The LiFePO4 battery uses a lithium-ion-derived chemistry and shares many advantages and disadvantages with other Lithium-ion battery chemistries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Advantages_and_disadvantages). However, there are significant differences.

LFP chemistry offers a longer cycle life than other lithium-ion approaches.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-rechargable_lithium_batteries-6)

The use of phosphates avoids cobalt's cost and environmental concerns, particularly concerns about cobalt entering the environment through improper disposal.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-rechargable_lithium_batteries-6)
LiFePO4 has higher current or peak-power ratings than LiCoO2.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-7)

The energy density (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density) (energy/volume) of a new LFP battery is some 14% lower than that of a new LiCoO2 battery.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-8) Also, many brands of LFPs have a lower discharge rate than lead-acid or LiCoO2. Since discharge rate is a percentage of battery capacity a higher rate can be achieved by using a larger battery (more ampère-hours (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amp%C3%A8re-hour)).

LiFePO4 cells experience a slower rate of capacity loss (aka greater calendar-life) than lithium-ion battery chemistries such as LiCoO2 cobalt or LiMn2O4 manganese spinel lithium-ion polymer batteries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery) or lithium-ion batteries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-10) After one year on the shelf, a LiFePO4 cell typically has approximately the same energy density as a LiCoO2 Li-ion cell, because of LFP's slower decline of energy density. Thereafter, LiFePO4 likely has a higher density.

Safety
One important advantage over other lithium-ion chemistries is thermal and chemical stability, which improves battery safety.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-rechargable_lithium_batteries-6) LiFePO4 is an intrinsically safer cathode material than LiCoO2 and manganese spinel. The Fe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron)-P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus)-O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen) bond is stronger than the Co (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt)-O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen) bond, so that when abused, (short-circuited, overheated, etc.) the oxygen atoms are much harder to remove. This stabilization of the redox energies also helps fast ion migration.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

As lithium migrates out of the cathode in a LiCoO2 cell, the CoO2 undergoes non-linear expansion that affects the structural integrity of the cell. The fully lithiated and unlithiated states of LiFePO4 are structurally similar which means that LiFePO4 cells are more structurally stable than LiCoO2 cells.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

No lithium remains in the cathode of a fully charged LiFePO4 cell—in a LiCoO2 cell, approximately 50% remains in the cathode. LiFePO4 is highly resilient during oxygen loss, which typically results in an exothermic reaction in other lithium cells.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-safer_liion-4)

As a result, lithium iron phosphate cells are much harder to ignite in the event of mishandling especially during charge, although any battery, once fully charged, can only dissipate overcharge energy as heat. Therefore failure of the battery through misuse is still possible. It is commonly accepted that LiFePO4 battery does not decompose at high temperatures.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-rechargable_lithium_batteries-6) The difference between LFP and the LiPo battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery) cells commonly used in the aeromodeling hobby is particularly notable.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Specifications


Cell voltage = min. discharge voltage = 2.8 V. Working voltage = 3.0 V – 3.3 V. Max. charge voltage = 3.6 V.
Volumetric energy density (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density) = 220 Wh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt-hour)/dm3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liter) (790 kJ/dm3)
Gravimetric energy density = >90 Wh/kg[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-11) (>320 J/g)
100% DOD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_discharge) cycle life (number of cycles to 80% of original capacity) = 2,000–7,000[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4#cite_note-12)
Cathode composition (weight)

90% C-LiFePO4, grade Phos-Dev-12
5% Carbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) EBN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBN)[disambiguation needed (http://toolserver.org/%7Edispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py?page=Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery&editintro=Template:Disambiguation_needed/editintro&client=Template:Dn)]-10-10 (superior graphite)
5% PVDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVDF)


Cell Configuration

Carbon-coated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coating) aluminium current collector 15
1.54 cm2 cathode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode)
Electrolyte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte): Ethylene carbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_carbonate)-Dimethyl carbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_carbonate) (EC-DMC) 1-1 LiClO4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_perchlorate) 1M
Anode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode): Graphite or Hard Carbon with intercalated Metallic lithium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium)


Experimental conditions:

Room temperature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature)
Voltage limits: 2.0 – 3.65 V
Charge: Up to C/1 rate up to 3.6 V, then constant voltage at 3.6 V until I < C/24




Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4)

[Jack Fouts]

Sounds like we are talking about two different animals here with regards to these lithium ion battery's. The information above sounds as if its a real safe technology. Has there been an improvement or whats missing here. I wondered the same thing ccjohonson stated.

[MrE]

29 different types of Lithium ION batteries, who'd a thunk?

[Billy Bussman]

The media does not tell the whole story and is screwing things up as usual and I don't care who they are whether it's CNN, MSNBC, USATODAY-- they are just not telling the people what they need to know--that the batteries in the Boeing are NOT the same as the batteries powering EV's, starting different vehicle systems i.e. and that there are numerous types of LiON batteries in use just like MrE posted pointed out above.

There was a time that the Tesla used this same risky Cobalt Oxide (CoO2 cells) chemistry but when they stopped production of the Tesla Roadster they changed to a more safe manganese spinel (LiMn2O4) cathodes.

This is all spelled out in detail in this article which gives the scientific facts that the media and other powers to be are avoiding informing the public:

Boeing 787 Batteries Same As Those In Electric Cars? Umm, No | Popular Science (http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-01/boeing-787-batteries-same-those-electric-cars-umm-no)

Failure to point this out is like saying that ALL internal combustion engine technologies--such as gasoline, diesel, steam, etc are the same thing just because they burn fuel to propel a vehicle.

Obviously the media are NOT scientists and haven't a clue when they write or broadcast about these things which then ends up propelling MYTHS about realities. Shame on the media.

I would like to clear the air on the original poster here and say these Mastervolt Batteries - Are a superb product! I look forward to them becoming competitive while staying very safe.

[Neweller]

Dang, you guys have really busy expanding on this post. I figured I would get beat to hell on it. :bolt:

I was worried knowing about the problem with Boeing might ignite some controversy that would have to be cleaned up and glad I don't have to worry about it now that others have jumped on the bandwagon and sorted it out. I can see this Boeing thing possibly screwing up some advancement in the Lithium-ion market. I agree with Billy about the stupid media and I guess that why I prefer a little more of the alternative media outlets vs. the corporate controlled $hit.:cursing:

[Neweller]

MLI 12/320

http://images.mastervolt.nl/images/products/medium/6293_20090908144105mli24160liion.jpg (http://images.mastervolt.nl/images/products/large/6293_20090908144105mli24160liion.jpg)

Lithium Ion batteries Lithium ion batteries have a high energy density and are perfect for cyclic applications. They offer savings of up to 70% in volume and weight compared to traditional lead-acid batteries, with three times as many charging cycles (2000 full cycles). Another major benefit of the Mastervolt Li-ion battery is that it is equipped with a Battery Management System (BMS), which automatically compensates for any imbalance between the cells. This guarantees you a constant high capacity and longer battery lifespan.




Highly advanced technology.
Multifunctional battery of 4.3 kWh.
Saves up to 70% in space.
Saves up to 70% in weight.
Three times the lifespan of traditional batteries (2000 full cycles).
Ultra-fast charging and discharging.
High efficiency.
MasterBus communication with every Mastervolt battery charger.
Integrated Battery Management System (BMS).
Safest Lithium Ion technology available.
Designed for systems up to 250 V DC.
Two-year warranty.


Product code: 66010320

[Neweller]

Lithium Ion battery wins Pittman Innovation Award Lithium Ion battery wins Pittman Innovation Award

http://images.mastervolt.nl/images/content/small/471_107_pitman.jpg (http://images.mastervolt.nl/images/content/471_107_pitman.jpg)
Mastervolt's Lithium Ion battery has won the prestigious Pittman Innovation Award 2010. This compact and lightweight battery also won a prize at the IBEX Awards (http://www.mastervolt.com/news.php?lang=2&cat_id=10&nieuws_id=109) at the end of last year. The Pittman Innovation Award is presented by the American Sail Magazine (http://sailmagazine.com/gear-and-reviews/the_2010_pittman_innovation_awards/index3.aspx).

Mastervolt is currently working on expanding its range by developing a 12V 320Ah battery in addition to its current 24Volt 160Ah battery.