Basement SCS A/C Service at Newell.....issues and HELP NEEDED!!!!!!

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Hi everyone. I am in need of some help and input, hopefully by tomorrow morning. I am sitting here spending the night in a bay at Newell and it is not going well. I have a double unit. Before arriving here I installed a new board, all capacitors new, new thermostat, new #2 compressor, cleaned unit top to bottom....leak tested, all coils and fins look new.

#1 compressor was not working as good as it should and at 16 years old, I knew it had to be replaced. Talked to Cressly and Dwight last week a few times and they told me what the ranges should be and I need to replace compressor #1 and "tweak" both. I decied to go out of my way and bring it to Newell, shipped a NEW compressor to Newell, made an appt with Tommy and drove here.

So today Dwight pulls unit out, replaces #1 compressor. By 3pm, unit is turned on, its supposedly 90 deg inside the covered service bay and its 80 in the rear bedroom of the coach. He turns it on high which uses both compressors. I asked him if I can just keep it on low to run compressor #1 only to test, as I know the second new compressor works. He said it wont cool at all with just one compressor on, it needs both but gave in and I turn on just the one compressor (not on high)

The air is blowing in the bedroom register 75deg. The air at return under stairs is 80deg. Thats a 5 degree difference!!!! He said thats because its 90 outside and on one compressor, THATS THE BEST IT WILL EVER GET.

He then turns on the second compressor and it drops to 69deg out of bedroom register. 11 degree difference.

My FRONT SINGLE unit has a 21 degree difference at same temps!!!! Dwight cant explain that one!!!!

This is NOT in direct sunlight in the covered shop garage!!! Not in the REAL HEAT!!!

Tommy says he should have booked me with Cressly next week (he is on vacation this week) and Dwight is only one here who knows these a/c's.

Dwight says NO Newell basement airs have ever worked well in high heat (90 deg), and only way to fix is to replace them with roof airs. He packed up his tools, sealed up unit and is done!!!!!

MY A/C's ARE WORKING WORSE THAN WHEN I GOT HERE!!!

I AM BEYOND DISSAPOINTED!!!

What do I do?? Dwight himself told me last week should be 18+ degree difference and now 11 degrees is acceptable???

Dwight said he will pull unit open again tomorrow, so he can test each unit seperatly. HE WANTS TO TEST AT 7AM WHEN ITS COOL OUT!!! Plus I am spending night in the bay...even cooler!!! The numbers will be skewed as it will be cool out!!

If you have any advice please call me tonite till midnight or first thing in the morning. three five two 223-9494.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

[NewellCrazy]

Dave & Marjorie I hope this thread helps.


"I have just had my basement SCS air fixed and the solution may be important to someone.

The dual compressor unit was giving us trouble recently, not blowing as cold as the single front unit and the fan wouldn't turn off. I called my house ac service company and persuaded them to service my coach. The tech traced the problem back to a faulty thermostat. I told him I would order one and call him back for the install."

Link to Thread : http://www.luxurycoachlifestyle.com/forum/hvac/1825-scs-basement-air-problem-solution.html

[NewellCrazy]

I will also chime in with this.

The first step in troubleshooting a low cooling complaint on the basement AC is to check the amperage draw on the compressors. First turn off the AC and wait 5 minutes, then turn the AC on with the thermostat set at least 10 degrees below interior temperature. Watch the monitor to see how many amps the first compressor draws when it comes on, which is usually a minute or so after the fan starts. A few minutes later the second compressor will turn on which will be indicated by a change in fan speed. Watch the monitor on the other power leg (if the first compressor was on leg one the other one will be on leg two) for the amp draw on the second compressor.

If both compressors are drawing in the 13 to 16 amp range (depending on the heat load), and they are drawing the same amperage, the system is operating to spec. and no repairs are indicated, but if one compressor is drawing considerably less amperage, you have a refrigerant (R 22) leak that needs to be repaired, If one of the compressors draws no amperage, you have a control board problem or a bad compressor.

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Hi Sean, Thanks for responding. Fans work perfect and go on high when second compressor kicks in. Dwight says amps are within spec range and in his words "perfect" 14 and 16 taped up on high. He pressure tested both sides with Nitrogen gas and zero leaks. Vaccumed down for over an hour before r22 added. Both brand new compressors have proper amps and took r22 as a new one should, and a brand new control board along with all start capacitors.

Todays bill topped $1,000 here at Newell with a 5 degree difference from discharge vent to return. Is worse than when I brought it here. That is not acceptable in my book. These guys are getting $110 an hour, they are supposed to be the best. I have replaced every single component and they cant get it right, and my front single unit right now is kicking out 20 degree difference.

I have over $3,000 invested in this unit almost every part is new, and still not cold. About to give up!!!

[NewellCrazy]

I agree 100 percent with you. Did you read through that whole topic I gave the link to?

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Yes, it really didnt help since all parts on this double unit are brand new and work perfect. Just doesnt cool within spec. Then it then went off on a inverter charger topic.

I agree 100 percent with you. Did you read through that whole topic I gave the link to?

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

I guess my biggest issue is that I expected alot more from Newell than this. I can assure you if this is not fixed tomorrow within spec (18 deg difference) I will never be back! $3,000 for non working a/c is not acceptable....

[86loco]

Sorry to here about this Dave. We had stopped by the factory some 3 yrs ago with a good friend for service and honestly they have never returned. We don't even order parts from them as they do not have much for our year coach. A lot of folks really love the service experience though. I believe unless you have the bigger dollars to spend every time which is not in our case. My brother whom works for another union shop just chuckled when we shared our experience. He said he loves the perks hes gets from his job but thats union business.

Oh I have to believe their 24/7 service by phone must be much better than that of your in shop experience.

[Neweller]

Dave, what thermostat do you have? Has the stat been checked? Kind of sounds like the heat is coming on at the same time but if it's SCS it's air only. Heck, one time I had a similar problem at an office of mine and it was the darn wiring on the thermostat.

[Neweller]

Maybe I should add, that after I had two so-called professionals come replace everything, then had a friends uncle drive from LA to Las Vegas to fix the original problem in less than 20 minutes. Of course about $700 later. All for a simple problem. Kind of reminds me of my younger days replacing, starter, battery, alternator etc. to find out I had a bad ground. Darn it anyway.

[Yachts]

Guys I will tell you this.. I've only had my coaches to Newell 3 times.. Twice with Ron skeens 96 and once with my 99.. I had air probs with my 96.. And while I don't know the technical issues they were able to fix them.. When you check out whom ever is your service writer will go though stuff with you.. Even go ask before then and see if they can help..

I can tell you 2 tricks we did with my 96 to help cool the coach before we got everything working and I'm not sure why it works but it helped.. Your airs dissipate the hot air underneath the coach correct? Put a fan blowing air underneath where the hot air comes out.. It made a significant difference especially if we were on concrete.. Also I know it's not the best answer but it did help

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

New 12v Coleman Mack Thermostat with hi/lo fan and auto cool installed here at Newell last year. Only heat I have is aqua hot. Dwight checked thermostat at both ends and works perfect.

Pulled out my RVAC Service Manual. Specs are crystal clear. 95 deg outside air / return air 70 deg / discharge air 55 deg. 14 amps. Mine is 84 deg outside air / return air 70 deg / discharge air 67 deg. That is 12 degrees off from spec, not counting its 11 degrees cooler than spec test. I feel this issue is with the freon charging. They just dont know what they are doing or how to get it right.

I will talk again tomorrow morning to Tommy my service advisor, then probably to the shop manager. There is no reason why this A/C should not work within the specs. I have them in black and white, all parts on a/c are brand new. They have no excuses. I will not pay $110 an hour for someone to "experiment" vaccuming it down and putting freon back in. Thats why I drove all the way here. For professionals to fix it right the first time. I will make sure to fill every one in about my experience. These a/c's were installed from 94-04 and I am sure there are many out there.

Thanks everyone for quick response and phone calls.

I would love to hear from other owners whos SCS basement a/c's work well. Newell tells me they do not exist.

[folivier]

How about a totally different direction? Get out your IR temperature gun and check all of your ducting to make sure there are no leaks into your basement bays. May be a longshot but if there is a leak then not all of the cooled air is getting into the coach.Good luck.

[ccjohnson]

For what it's worth, our '92 has original basement a/c's. 3 units, inside of coach with levelor's & drapes closed was 85 degrees outside in Phx with afternoon sun on drivers side of coach temp was 118 degrees. 85 was inside temp not discharge air temp. Dwight & Robert were techs that serviced our a/c's at Newell.

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Latest this morning is that Newell is saying the RVAC SCS specs are wrong and never worked even when new within specs. I find this very hard to believe! Can you imagine paying $800k for a 2000 Newell and the a/c only blows 6 degrees cooler than return???? They said no one has cool 16+ degree difference, and that its impossible. I find that hard to believe......

My front single unit has a 21 degree difference!!!! I drove all the way here, with promises that if I replace every part brand new, it would run within specs. We are at 1/3 of specs and I am paying $110 an hour for them to "experiment" for two days. No leaks as we are taking air temp at unit discharge, not inside air vent.

[ccjohnson]

Any chance there is internal debris in the evaporator coils?

[GringoPhil]

I say if Newell can't fix your issue your service should be free!

[NewellCrazy]

Latest this morning is that Newell is saying the RVAC SCS specs are wrong and never worked even when new within specs. I find this very hard to believe! Can you imagine paying $800k for a 2000 Newell and the a/c only blows 6 degrees cooler than return???? They said no one has cool 16+ degree difference, and that its impossible. I find that hard to believe......

My front single unit has a 21 degree difference!!!! I drove all the way here, with promises that if I replace every part brand new, it would run within specs. We are at 1/3 of specs and I am paying $110 an hour for them to "experiment" for two days. No leaks as we are taking air temp at unit discharge, not inside air vent.

Anymore News?

[Neweller]

It's either DIY or DAP. It's an owners personal preference and choice.:bandit:

[Neweller]

Dave is awful quite all of a sudden, hopefully he didn't collapse from heat exhaustion. I feel more for Marjorie having to deal with the ruckus in all this. Dave, you didn't head down to Foretravel by chance did you?

[ashley]

Dave my basement airs work really well. On low i get 11 degrees def on high i get 18

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

UPDATE!!!!! WE ARE ALIVE....AND COLD!!!! :thumbsup:

What a turn around today!!!! Dwight knocked on the door at 7am, Marjorie and I spent stressful night in the shop. Dwight said his idea is to get the amps to spec using the freon charge. For some reason, he was on this 12 amp tangent, but the specs call for 14. I agreed and he immediatly went to work. The temp dropped within 15 minutes. We finally got the temp down to 19 degree difference at the unit head/return, and 16 at the rear bathroom/return at outside temps of 95 deg. Within spec and cold finally!!!

So the service writer Tommy comes in the coach to settle the bill. I did have a few other things on this first big trip, ride height valve failed, and a aquahot emergency where a copper pipe joint fell apart.

Everything they did was spot on cost except for the a/c. I was getting charged 13 hours for a 8 hour job. I told Tommy I was very dissappointed with the whole a/c thing and how it went down and felt I was getting over charged. He said...and I quote "David, what can I do to make you happy, I want every experience with Newell to be a good one for you". I said "I was prepared to pay 8 hours labor pulling out unit, installing one compressor, sweat in two valves, and tweak the units within spec, not 13". He said, "your right, I will make it happen and be right back with a new bill reducing $550 (5 hours) in labor".

How about that?????? A negative experience turned into a positive one!!! Being in the business, I can tell you the way Tommy took care of me was total class and I felt like he really wanted to do whatever it took to make me happy. And Dwight changed 180 deg from yesterday. He said this morning that we are going to fix those a/c's no matter what it takes. I am very happy, was 95 today in campground sun and a/c was easily 72 and I could have made it 65 if I wanted.

I will be back for sure!!!! Thanks so much everyone for your input. With this board, Newell phone support, and service here at factory, there is nothing that cant be fixed in a Newell, even an old 96 like ours!!

[NewellCrazy]

That's what I'm talking about Dave! Glad your experience made a turn for the better and Newell Coach delivered the type of service there known for.

Sean

[Yachts]

That's the Newell service we are used too.. It's what we expect from a place sold our coaches for 1 million plus each... Lol we just get the million dollar service for a fraction of the price.. Congrats glad it worked out..

[MrE]

That is great news! Glad to hear that everything ended well.

[Neweller]

So, the saga ends. Just as things were getting juicy. Sure glad Mr. Keys stepped up to the plate in Newell fashion. I was wondering the heck could be going on..........

[ccjohnson]

Dave, Are you heading to mini rally now that your AC is working?

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Will be in Hermosa SD (Heartland RV Resort) tomorrow for a week, then west yellowstone for a week, then Glacier, then Vancouver, then Astoria, then Napa, then San Fran...LOL...Then???????......I thought we were cutting spearfish too close, so maybe next time......

Dave, Are you heading to mini rally now that your AC is working?

[folivier]

Dave, where did you get the ac compressor? I have one that may need to be replaced and would appreciate any info and specs you could give me.
Did you have Newell replace the first compressor or someone else?

[Dave-n-Marjorie]

Someone else did my first one. It was super easy. Since I am traveling, I dont have any paperwork. The company is Johnstone. Wish I could help more, but I am sure Newell could help with the compressor.

Dave, where did you get the ac compressor? I have one that may need to be replaced and would appreciate any info and specs you could give me.
Did you have Newell replace the first compressor or someone else?