"Stupid" Generator Question

[my38special]

As a new inductee into the class A world, with our 1983 Newell, I'm still trying to determine how or if some of the things on my coach work. Last night I started the Perkins generator motor with no difficulty; however, according to the bank of gauges above my pilot seat, I wasn't putting out any power. Is there a switch somewhere I must turn to get the actual generator to start producing power?

[chockwald]

Is the shorepower cord plugged in to the genset receptacle (located in the same compartment as the shorepower cord)? Sometimes it's something as simple as that. Have you checked your breaker panel to be sure the main is on? These are the easy things to check...I hope it's one of these.

[fulltiming]

Clarke is certainly more familiar with Classics than I am but the early 90's model Newell's had a manual power transfer switch located above the driver's seat to change from shorepower to generator. This was typically near the generator start switch. Other Newell's, as Clarke pointed out, had an automatic transfer switch that will switch to shorepower automatically if the coach is plugged into AC, even if the generator is started. On those, when you turn off the power at the park's pedestal, the transfer switch will change over to the generator. If either type of transfer switch is not operating properly, you may not get power to the coach.

Another potential issue could be the breaker on the generator (at least it is located on the generator on the early 90's models). If this breaker trips, the generator will not provide power to the coach.

[chockwald]

Hey Michael...good morning....my '82 doesn't have an automatic transfer switch as far as I know. I'll have to try starting the genset without the shorepower plugged into the genset receptacle and see if my meters register voltage. I'm pretty sure that this is a totally manual system, at least in my '82, which requires that I physically plug the shorepower into the genset receptacle in the electrical bay before power from my genset is transfered to the coach systems. This may have changed in the '83.

[fulltiming]

See what happens when I reply to a post too early in the morning. You have the ultimate in a manual transfer system. No electronics to fail. You just plug in either the shorepower or the generator pigtail to an outlet that feeds power to the coach. That was a common system during the early 80's.

We have now discussed all three of the primary systems that have been used to switch power source between shorepower and generator over that power 40 years. There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to each of the three systems.

Sorry for any confusion that my post might have caused.

[chockwald]

This is one of the things that attracted me to my coach.....totally low tech, or no tech. Fewer things to trouble shoot if something is not working...lol!

[my38special]

Thanks for the speedy and wise counsel regarding my "stupid" generator questions. After examining every corner of the Electrical bay, I found nothing I could plug in or any switch I could change (the interior of this space doesn't look original). I then went to the CB panel, in the master bedroom, and there on the floor in the corner I found a "Kohler - Off - Shorepower" switch. Suffice to say, my electrical problems are behind me. Thanks again for the help.

[chockwald]

Great......it's usually something simple! Thank you so much for the update!

[fulltiming]

Glad you found the manual transfer switch. That is an logistically understandable location but certainly not the most convenient place for the switch.

[tuga]

My generator has a primary fuel filter (water seperator) and a secondary fuel filter (spin on). My question is: Do I have to change the water seperator each time I change oil and fuel filters or just drain the water out of the bottom of the primary fuel filter? The primary fuel filter doesn't have an element inside.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Tuga, that filter is supposed to have an element inside. I'll look up the Luberfiner number this weekend if you are interested.

It is supposed to catch any of the boogers in the fuel and the second filter is intended just to polish.

[tuga]

Richard,

I am using a BF 1205 as the primary fuel filter. I'll check to see if it has an element, but I don't think that it does.

[tuga]

The BF 1205 DOES have an element inside. My bad!

I remember seeing a water separator on Matt's Newell. I don't think that it had an element in it.

I must be getting old!

[Wally Arntzen]

I hope someone can clear this up. Are you guys talking about the black canisters with the glass globe on the bottom that are next to the fuel tanks. I was told at Newell to drain the water out of the bottom once in a while and that they did not have filters inside of them. After 22 years of use it seams to me that there should be someway to put in a filter or be able to clean them out somehow.
HELP

[tuga]

Wally,

Those are just water separators (I think). It has been a while since I owned my first Newell (1987 40' w/tag). Those water separators allow the water to settle at the bottom of the black separator and do not have an element inside. There are two black separators; one for the generator fuel tank and and one for the engine fuel tank. These separators are ahead (before) the primary fuel filters.

You should have a spin on primary fuel filter(s) for your 8V92 and the same for your generator.

Sorry for the confusion!

[Wally Arntzen]

Thanks Tuga, I do have 2 other fuel filters, one is the glass type that they use on the series 60 coaches that I installed and another that is the secondary filter. When I installed the glass type filter I found out that I had the dreaded fungas in my tanks and I took me over 2 years to clear it up.

[tuga]

Wally,

What are the symptoms of fungus in your tank?

[encantotom]

the water separators that are next to the fuel tanks in mine and i believe yours wally are made by ConMet

cm99-327d and the other is a cm99-500d

that company is still in business but no longer makes these products. i looked and was totally unable to find parts for them.

the water separator that is part of your davco is more than sufficient.

i had to put plugs in the bottom bowls as i could not get them to stop leaking. and i really tried too.

tom

[Wally Arntzen]

Tuga, Approx two and a half years ago we were sleeping overnight at a WalMart outside of Kansas City and my gererator quit running in the middle of the night. Forunately it was summer and I was running the air conditioner so I waited until morning to call my mechanic friend in Minneapolis and he said it was more than likely the fuel filter. I had one with me and changed it in the parking lot and it started right up.
When I got back home he suggested that I install the Detroit filter with the big glass top to see if I may have a problem with dirty fuel. It got real green and dirty right away and he informed me that I had a fungas problem in my fuel tanks.
I started puting in a fungas removal additive which really loosend it up and had to change the fuel filters about every 500 miles for a little over two years. I fulltime in my coach so that is a lot of fuel filters when I put over 30,000 on my coach every year.
The problem is now solved since when I left Minnesota in october to drive to Arizona and did not use any filters.
The level in the glass bottle raises as the filter is getting used up, if you don't have one they are really cool because you know whats going on and they are very simple to change.
I was changing them in parking lots or anywhere I noticed it was dirty and you just open a drain on the bottom and let about a quart of fuel into a bottle, spin off the top and replace the filter, pour about a half of a pint of fuel back into the filter and your ready to go. I just double bagged the filters and put them into a nearby trash can.
The fungas is a real problem for people with yahts and big boats with large deisel fuel tanks because the sit so long without being used. My friend has a 54' boat and he has had to have 3000 gallons of fuel pumped, cleansed and put back into the tank which cost him nearly $2,000.00 on two occaisions already.
I now put the additive in my fuel about every 4th time I fill the tanks. At the present time I am in Florida visiting my daughter and do have the coach with me so I can't tell what the additive. I think Michael knows what it is.

[tuga]

Wow Wally, I had heard about fungus problems in boats but never in RVs. I have the glass fuel filter for my S60 and I am familiar with the floating fuel filter. I guess you can pick up a bad load of diesel anywhere; so far I have been lucky.

At present, I don't use a fuel additive but now I am going to consider it.

Great post!

[Wally Arntzen]

Tuga, you can get it from a bad fill of fuel, but most of the coaches that get it as I have been told are the ones that get very little use. Its not any difference if its a yaht or a coach if you let sit for long periods the fungas can get started.
I dont know if you change your own filters or not but the cost of the filters is very inexpensive. The cost of the additive to get rid of the crud is about 4 times as the filters.

[tuga]

Yes Wally I change my own filters. My coach is used about once a week on average; we use it alot. In the 4 years that I have owned it I have put 77,000 miles on it. That works out to about 19,250 miles per year. And that works out 2,567 gallons per year; that is a lot of fresh diesel. I hope I can continue using it that much. I love my Newell!

[Wally Arntzen]

Tuga, I've had this coach nearly 5 years and put over 120,000 miles on it. I really think It had the fungas when I bought it and my heavy use just kicked it up at a more rapid rate before I realized what was going on. There's no question in my mind that the previous owner new anything about it and I would not found out other than the fact that I have an extremely good deisel mechanic friend who has taught me a great deal about how to take care of the coach.

[fulltiming]

The best ways to minimize the risk of fungus are:
1) Always buy fuel from a supplier that sells a LOT of fuel so it will be fresh,
2) Don't fill up when they are refilling their storage tanks because the sediment and water in the bottom of their tank will get mixed in with the fresh fuel,
3) Fill the fuel tanks before storing it to minimize the amount of moisture that can condense inside the tank,
4) Drain some fuel from the petcocks on the bottom of the tanks (assuming you have those) regularly and if you get much water out of them or any slimy looking 'stuff', consider having your fuel polished.

Polishing fuel is expensive but much easier than plugging up dozens of fuel filters. In most harbor/port areas you will find mobile fuel polishing services that will pump the fuel out of your tanks, run it through magnets to remove any metal shavings, run it through several filters, including extremely fine filters and dump the fuel back into the tank. I have had it done once at a cost of $400 in Newport Beach, CA. If I had know then what I know now, I would have purchased the equipment and done it myself (about the same price) and had the equipment to use in the future. It takes several hours to polish 300 gallons of fuel.

[Neweller]

I've had good luck with ValvTect diesel guard winter fuel additive that greatly protects against winter diesel fuel problems. This anti-gel formula contains proprietary wax crystal modifiers, cold flow improvers and wax anti-settling properties. ValvTect’s diesel guard improves a diesel engine’s winter performance and operating reliability.

Polishing fuel is definitely a way to save your. I have done it a couple of times with great success following the same process Michael has stated above.




Ken

[encantotom]

here is an interesting article on dirty diesel fuel and the need to polish it. it is for big boats, but most of it applies to us.

tom

http://www.trawlersandtrawlering.com/howto/captnwil.html

[Wally Arntzen]

Tom, quite an interesting story on fuel contamination issues.
After going through two and a half years clearing up a fungas problem my thoughts are as follows.
After the problem was discovered by my friend and we began the process of cleaning the tank with additives and this mechanic friend is totally against putting additives in oil or fuel of deisel engines for enhancement of preformance, however, he said we can clean the tanks or replace them to correct the problem.
I have spoken to many friends who have yachts and large boats, numerous over the truckers and several bus company owners and all of them said that they never have any fungas problems with boats or vehicles with the exception of the ones that sit for long periods of time without use.
I know people who have large boats that may take them for short trips sometimes at two year intervals. The truck and bus people said that they have excess vehicles that sit for long periods because of a lack of buisness (like now with the downturn in the economy) and when they put them back in service after sitting for a year or more the come with the dreaded fungas problem.
Some have tried the fuel polishing solution, but most I talk to say that it is not necessarly the fuel that is the problem it is the fungas growing on the sides and bottom of the tank that is the issue.
The filters in our coaches, large boats and over the road trucks are more that adequeate to clean the fuel and allow the vehicles to preform well but if the tanks get poluted and damage the fuel it is the cause of the problems.
Hence, I beleive that cleaning the fuel and tank with the proper additives is the solution to the problem. After the lengthy period of cleaning that I did I am confident that my coach is now as close to fungs free that I can get it and I will continue to put the additive in as needed to keep it that way.
A lot of our members are purchasing coaches that have sat for long periods of time and I suspect that most of them are potential victims of this problem.
So I believe cleaning the tank and getting rid of the bad fuel is a better solution that polishing the fuel.

That is the fat guy's opinion and I'm sticking with it.

[encantotom]

wally,

i actually have no opinion. i have not had it and i always keep my tanks topped off. i put 175 bucks worth in last weekend to just top it off.

i was doing a search on fuel polishing and found the article.

in fact, i am still thinking i am going to put in a davco fuel filter like you have because i think it is amazingly cool.

tom.....and i am fatter than you and taller, so there....

[prairieschooner]

The reason that "Polishing" the Fuel works well on Yachts is that the Fuel Tanks have Access Plates. If these Access Plates were not installed when new then usually are put into the Fuel Tanks when "Polishing" is needed. The better Companies usually have numerous Empty Barrels to move the Contaminated Fuel into and the Filter the Fuel. The Fuel is used to Spray the Walls of the Tank and knock the Fungus off the Walls of the Tank. Most of the Fuel Tanks in Boats are Aluminum or Stainless Steel.
I don't have Access Plates on our '82 and the Tanks are Black Iron or Steel (maybe someone could clarify) and the Fungus should not stick to it like Aluminum. I like Wally chose to use the microbiocide additive because our '82 sat so long. I also purchased 12 Primary and 6 Secondary Fuel Filters. In the beginning I changed the Primary after a few hours and the Secondary every other time. My thoughts here are that since I don't have the Access Plates (they would be hard to use anyway) and the 6V92 Detroit Circulates so much Fuel we have our own "Polishing" System already. After 5,000 miles all is well, now that I have said something I will replace at least the Primary before we leave for Mexico on Monday. Since our Coach sat in the Desert and others may be in areas with High Humidity I cannot say that this approach is for everyone.
Here is a link to an additive;
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/21560/377%20710/0/FUEL%20ADDITIVE/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377 (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/21560/377%20710/0/FUEL%20ADDITIVE/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377)

[tuga]

Does anyone know where I can buy a fuel filter wrench for a Davco fuel filter?

[Wally Arntzen]

Tuga, if your near a detroit service center they probably have them.

[HoosierDaddy]

I have used and sold this companys products since 1979. In business since 1911, they are known within manufacturing and agriculture industries as a top quality company.They have several fuel conditioners to meet different needs. Their web-site doesn't have a lot of information but I think a phone call or email would yield lots of good information.

http://www.cen-pe-co.com/

(This is not an offer to sell...They will probably sell and ship direct if they don't have a local rep in your area.)

Dean

[Wally Arntzen]

Steve, Bioguard is the same stuff that I used and West Marine is the one place that is readily avaible because of all of it that they sell to boat owners.

[prairieschooner]

Wally,
My experience is with Yachts so that is the source that I go to. West Marine are the big boys on the block now since the acquired Boat US. Defender Industries is another great source but is Mail Order to most of us. Knowing that is what you used I am sure that your Fuel is OK.