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09-10-2009, 04:05 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Water heater failure
I rarely open the door to the water heater and have been traveling all summer. I came back to Tulsa to do some repairs before going west for the winter. I can't remember the reason I opened that compartment door, but I had a very hard time turning the latch. When I finally got it opened I was horrified to see the WH was trying to get out & was basically being held in by the plumbing. My initial thought was that I had hit something under the WH and pushed it up. I looked & no damage. It appeared that it had seperated from it's base. After I removed it, I discovered that the original concave tank bottom was now partially convex. The heater was not leaking & woking fine, but for how long.
I'm guessing that with the heat from the engine & a defective safety valve (?) something had to give. Because of it's age, I decided to replace it with a conventional unit. Sears had the best spec's & price, but a 5-10 day wait. Found one at Lowe's, 19 Gal vs. 20 on the Raritan, 1500 watts vs 1250 & $260. Believe it or not, the plumbing lined up perfectly.
The recovery rate seems quite a bit greater than the wattage increase would suggest. "C" clamps worked on the engine water lines, & with the old fittings on the tank I was able to connect these hoses together.
There had been some previous discussions on replacing the safety valve with a higher pressure one because of the added heat from the engine. Based on my experience, I would stick with the factory setup
Pictues to follow, when I find them
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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09-10-2009, 08:35 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 1,221
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I had my Raritan 20 gallon go out at Creede. Luckily Tom & David found the problem while they were "snooping" in my basements! The tank had started leaking where the electrical connections to the elements are. When we discovered it the insulation on the cover had already started to smolder. Could have been really bad!
I was lucky to find the same heater on Ebay through Seachest.com for about $500 and had it a few days after we returned home. I took the opportunity to add a tempering valve ala Tom's.
Your comments have me wondering if the temp/press valve supplied with the Raritan will start to relieve when the engine is running at temperature?
Has anybody noticed the relief leaking especially when climbing and engine temps at 200?
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09-10-2009, 09:57 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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I haven't noticed the valve relieving water when climbing mountains during the summer but then I typically don't stop to check. It doesn't seem unreasonable that it would blow off excess pressure. I know that the water coming out of the hot faucets after a long hot run seems every bit as hot as the water from the Insta-Hot.
I know from recent experience that a pressure up around 90 psi will cause my Raritan 75 psi valve to open. I certainly enjoy the free hot water courtesy of the engine coolant heat exchanger on the Raritan but they are pricey.
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09-10-2009, 10:42 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Michael
You got me thinking that possibly, given the location of the pressure relief valve on the Raritan, it could be resting against the compartment door & not operable. I just checked the door & no mark.
Another thing I noticed when traveling that I would have water pressure on the hot side only & not just a little. I chalked it up to the engine heated water,, but it did have me concerned. Once a fitting blew off under the vanity & I can guarantee the draws are leak proof.
I never travel with the water pump on & in all my travels I never went over 200 degree's, gauge temp, (more time than money)
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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09-10-2009, 11:05 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Gordon, if you travel with the water pump off, certainly leaving a hot faucet open some would allow any built up pressure to relieve itself even if the T&P valve didn't.
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09-11-2009, 07:46 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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a couple of things. i replaced the t&p valve with one for higher pressure, not temp. i put in a new water pump that puts out much higher pressures and it kept blowing off the t&p valve. i checked with raritan and the tank can hold the pressure no problem. mine is all copper plumbing so no problem there.
i only put the tempering valve in because i didnt want my grandkids to get scalded. it only is needed when driving to heat the water up.
very good work gordon. it is fun to watch someone else go through the same things i have already...
tom
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09-20-2010, 03:09 AM
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#7
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New Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
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got a raritan, rusted and leaking in my new old coach (1986) new to me........if I do as someone here said , and go with standard household heater, will it run on the batts, when boondocking, or does it rquire generator ?? Im new so be kind .
got 1986 3 axle 8V92
Ross and Jill Vieu
Benson AZ
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09-20-2010, 04:26 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 194
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Voltage is Voltage
Really depends how you want to use the coach..you would loose the motor aid (coolent exchanger) feature. whether its 1500w or 1200w your inverter & batteries wouldn't last long without the genny I didn't connect my water heater into the inverter buss.. I sorta like having the hot water going down the road... Yours is a bit different than mine.. as I additionally have a propane burner(3 ways).. i've attached a link to some info ..
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/...eaterv0502.pdf
__________________
Jimmy
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09-20-2010, 04:41 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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howdy,
the only downside to the raritan is cost. it is a high quality yacht hot water heater that like jimmy said uses electric and coolant heat exchanger to heat while driving.
i agree with jimmy, a heating element hot water heater will not work with your inverter. not unless you have a dozen batteries.
to put in a propane heater would require a great deal of rework. a standard small electric hot water heater would be the cheapest, but you would have to be plugged in or have the genny running to get hot water.
most of us have replaced the raritan as it does rust out over time. hang on to your wallet with it.
later
tom
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09-20-2010, 12:24 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 1,221
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There are a couple solutions for a propane/electric water heater. http://www.precisiontemp.com/pt_rvmd_m500.html is one that was designed for boats and acts as an on-demand water heater. It has a power exhaust (would have to cut a hole through the floor, but better than through the compartment door!). But it's much more expensive than the Raritan.
If you're boondocking frequently you would probably be running your generator a few hours a day. That should be enough to heat water.
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09-20-2010, 02:48 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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Yes, The RARITAN Water Heater is expensive but there is another alternative!
1st the RARITAN is most likely better constructed and does have a Sacrificial Anode. If the Anode is replaced at the recommended intervals, this Water Heater may actually outlast most other items on the coach. The problem is that most people do not replace the anode and then the Tubes will fail due to Corrosion.
I chose a SEAWARD Water Heater. It is a rectangular shape and has the stainless steel sheet metal cover (optional). The problem is that it has a smaller tank (11 gallons) if that matters, still we haven't run out of Hot Water. I like it better for Boondocking because it does help to limit Water use, I also use a smaller Water Pump than the Coach came with.
Here is a link to one of the suppliers, you'll see that the RARITAN is about twice the price;
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...SiteSearchView
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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09-21-2010, 12:24 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jefferson City, Tennessee
Posts: 197
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What about using a (TANKLESS WATER HEATER)? I just replace at my house a 100gals electric with a tankless electric and really like it. You can purchase LP or electric tankless and they require very little space. Just a thought!
__________________
Ron & Jean Skeen
1996 Newell 45' #422
2004 Newell 45'8" #689
60 Series Detriot
Yellow Dodge Truck
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09-21-2010, 01:02 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 1,221
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Ron, I looked into doing just that when my Raritan went out. The problem was how to vent it, through the floor was about the only option. At that time there were none I could find that had power vents (needed for venting down). There is at least 1 option now (that I listed in a previous post) and maybe others. But there are pretty expensive even compared to Raritans. Didn't look at electric units since I wanted propane.
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09-21-2010, 02:36 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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Ron,
Proper Venting would be the issue.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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09-21-2010, 02:00 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jefferson City, Tennessee
Posts: 197
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Steve,
Could the gen support an electric tankless?
__________________
Ron & Jean Skeen
1996 Newell 45' #422
2004 Newell 45'8" #689
60 Series Detriot
Yellow Dodge Truck
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09-21-2010, 07:03 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Free anode
Ironically I purchased an anode rod for my Raritan, but never had a chance to install it. It's part# 1790010 which I think is for the early model heaters. If someone can use it, PM me you address & I'll send it to you.
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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09-22-2010, 03:01 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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Ron,
What is the Wattage or Amperage of the Tank-less Water Heater?
I just looked at the BOSCH Electric Water Heater. Looks like it is 17.25 KW at 240 Volts so at least this one would not work for us.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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09-22-2010, 05:36 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 424
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Electric tankless heaters draw a LOT of amps while in use. I havent seen one that would work in an RV.
__________________
1993 Newell 45'#316, 1976 Trans Am 455, 1967 GTO, 1953 Chevrolet 3105 (panel truck),1952 Chevrolet 3600,1969 Airstream Overlander. Always fixing something!
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09-24-2010, 02:52 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jefferson City, Tennessee
Posts: 197
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Electrical is not one of my strong points. I used a Titan tank at home and they had a number of units listed on their ste ( http://www.titanheater.com/proddetai...prod=SCR2-N100). Thanks for the response.
__________________
Ron & Jean Skeen
1996 Newell 45' #422
2004 Newell 45'8" #689
60 Series Detriot
Yellow Dodge Truck
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09-25-2010, 01:38 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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howdy,
any electric tankless hot water heater that will service our RV's is likely to take too much current to run. you would not be able to run anything else in the coach, so you better like hot water better than everything else.
if you just wanted one to heat the water at a sink, yea, that is possible, but not for the shower.
in a nutshell, when the raritan rusts out, here are your options.
1. replace it with a new raritan....pros, it is essentially the same (though not exactly) cons...it is pricey. you have hot water while driving and a large hot water heater when parked and plugged in. ( i count the seward in this category as well)
2. replace it with an all electric one of similar size from home depot etc. pros....cheaper cons....no hot water from engine coolant.
3. put in a propane one. pros....not sure there are any in my mind....cons....smaller tank, a ton of work to retrofit...not much cheaper when all done.
4. enjoy cold water....pros....cheapest of all and very quick showers so water conservation....cons....not so pleasant when cool outside.
happy friday
tom
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