[Richard and Rhonda]

Ok, back on track here.

While I am waiting for the head to come back from the shop, I have a lot of time to think about this situation. My fear is that I will get it all back together only to see the same problem. So I have an idea, and I would like to know what you think about it.

It is pretty clear that no 5 is the problem cyl. So put the head back on, cam back in, valve train on, rotate engine so that no 5 exhaust valves are cracked open. Make a plate to fit on no 5 exhaust manifold. The has a threaded hole for an airline. Bolt the plate on and pressurize no 5. Pour water in the coolant system until it's level with the top of the open water pump. Look to see if the water bubbles.

What am I missing?

[Richard and Rhonda]

Brighter lighting, loupes, and getting the right angle revealed the problem.. Cracked liner.

I had the corks and was ready to pressure test the system. It took a couple of days to drink enough wine to have 12 corks. Rhonda helped.

Hopefully I pick up the parts tomorrow, and as Tuga would say, start turning to the right.

[chockwald]

We would have been happy to contribute corks from this end....haha!

Well, nothing like certainty! Glad the problem became obvious before a lot more testing! Sometimes it just takes a different angle, and a little more light!!!

[tuga]

For those who don't know what "turning to the right" is: it is a term used in the oilfield business. When you are turning to the right you are DRILLING. When you are turning to the left you are coming out of the hole and that is not good!

Glad you found the problem Richard. How do you change the liner?

Are you going to change all 6 liners?

[RussWhite]

Richard,

I know you are relieved to find the source of the leak. I'm with Tuga though, how do you fix it? Please give us the path you plan to follow. Of course we will be interested in your thought on the root cause - manufacturing defect, cavitation, etc.
Good Luck,
Russ

[Richard and Rhonda]

The liner slips out from the top. It has O rings to seal it in the block. It is made to be replaced.

It is a metal fatigue issue, I suppose. Internet research shows that it does happen, just like blown head gaskets, and cracked heads.

I still have this nagging suspicion that I caused this. Why? Because the problem developed the first trip after I changed the coolant. I was always suspicious that the head would need to be burped, but all the info on the 60's said no. I do know that when I refilled it did need considerable topping off. I can imagine a scenario of no coolant at that liner when I first started the engine after the change over, it getting hot, and then thermally shocked when the coolant did reach it. That would cause a crack. Is this what happened? Who knows. On the other hand, I may have been loosing small amounts of coolant since I owned the coach. All of the real root causes of the problem are merely speculation with the data I have.

But, if I were changing coolant again, I would definitely burp the head by loosening one of the two coolant temp sensors at the driver side of the head toward the front. They are a PITA to get to from the engine compartment, but easy from the engine access panel inside the coach.

I will only replace the one that is cracked at this point. There are arguments both ways. Replace them all while you have it apart, and the opposite view, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I'll post some pics of the liner when I get it out.

[HoosierDaddy]

IMO the crack would not be caused by cavitation...Probably metal fatigue. It will be interesting to see what that liner looks like. While we are talking coolant ,,I'm curious as to how many are using cavitition treatment in their coolant? I understand that Baldwin has a coolant filter that will replenish the additive for 150,000 ?? miles. I'm also including a link concerning coolant that I found interesting.

http://www.expertdiesel.com/cavitation.htm

[prairieschooner]

Good find Richard, this could be a very hard problem to find especially if the liner would have to heat up to find the crack! Since this is the only one showing the pitting, this may be the only one with a problem.
Hoosier Daddy's link does state a potential issue with hard water, best to use distilled with the proper and a good quality Antifreeze.
I do agree with "burping" the system but after looking at the Thermostats I can understand why they don't feel that it is needed. Usually I will fill the Radiator and then recheck it the next day if I have the time, this usually helps to get the system filled. And always start up the engine, allow it to heat up to operating temp, then shut it down and allow it to cool before checking it again.
As a side note on most smaller Diesels they have an air bleed fitting at the thermostat housing.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Steve,

The 60 does have an air bleed on top of the water pump, which also contains the tstats.

The coolant temp plugs at the back of the head are higher up in the system. I am going to burp there.

One of the tips I got from the bus site was excellent. Clean up the part, smear it with old used oil or blueing, and wipe it clean again. The stain will highlight the crack. I don't know why I didn't think of that. In another life I worked as a maintenance engineer at a Nuke plant. That's the way we checked welds. It's called dye penetrant testing. The first dye was hot pink, then you sprayed a white coating over that. If there was a hole or crack, the hot pink would bleed through the white.

[encantotom]

hi richard. great find. as you know, none of the real over the road mechanics will change everything when they find one thing wrong. wayyyy too much money has been spent on detroit engines by well meaning RV'rs who think they have to change it all when the fix is obvious. any honest truck shop will fix only whats wrong. these engines were built to do that. not shotgun repair.

good luck

tom

[prairieschooner]

Me too Richard. I used to use the same product I can't find it on the web but I can still remember the smell. Still, though I think your method was much more dependable, you wouldn't use that to check the Head Gasket or Liner Seals.
I'll have to get Tricia start keeping corks from her wine but wait would 2 buck chuck corks work?

[Richard and Rhonda]

Yesterday was a day of improvisation. First, the liner refused to come out. I did buy the three hundred buck tool. I finally ended up using a bottle jack and a very lont 1/2 extension bar. Voila !

Well, I also didn't buy the 200 buck cylinder liner installer. Hmmm, if the bottle jack got it out, then it should get it back in. I put a block of wood on top of the liner, bottle jack on top of the wood, and a long piece of 2 inch diameter pipe underneath upper frame of the bedroom floor. Voila !

And finally, I used an old trick I learned working on Vw's. I used a big hose clamp to compress the rings to get it back in the cyl.

I did replace the rod and main bearings while I was in the bottom end. Wow, what a nasty job. I was filthy and bleeding by the end of the day. Seems that when you remove the trailer hitch it leaves two really sharp but solid pieces of iron. I tried several times to move them with my head. Ouch. I did get to use the Tuga wrench. The main caps are torqued to 350 ft lbs. Even with a five foot long wrench you still have to apply some oomph while on your back in a tight place. I'm sore this morning.

I did not see ANY evidence of cavitation on the liner. NONE. You can see from the pics that one side has been exposed to exhaust gas. It looks burned and carboned up.

Today, I hope to get the head on, and if I'm lucky get this puppy buttoned up, and clean the coach.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving all.

[folivier]

You da man!
If anyone could tackle this job, I knew it would be you.
Happy Turkey.

[HoosierDaddy]

Dittos,,,,Richard I'm impressed.........I would vote to promote you from Senior Member to Grand Master !
Wishing you'all a blessed Thanksgiving!
Dean

[chockwald]

Richard, the older we get the more blood we tend to shed, even if the repairs are easy....haha......great job! I am very impressed.

[RussWhite]

Richard,

Add me to the list of the very impressed. The size of that piston is impressive too. You have got to be one sore mechanic. I bet there won't be any extra bolts when you are done

Way to go!

[folivier]

But if you need any I have some laying around!

[Richard and Rhonda]

I had hoped to have it running today, but it was not meant to be. Things always take longer than I think they should.

The head is on, and torqued. I won't need to go to the gym today. 38 bolts, 220 ft lbs, done twice, and then once more cause I'm anal.

Injectors in, camshaft in. Intake manifold on, exhaust manifold on, turbo on.

Alas, it will have to wait for another weekend, and decent weather.

I need to finish the air plumbing, install the rockers and check the valve lash, and install the jakes. Fill it with oil and coolant, and cross my fingers that they don't mix this time.

[Richard and Rhonda]

I need some help from one of you has a S60. There is an exhaust shield that is mounted on the exhaust manifold. It can fit either at the back of the engine (toward the coach) or at the front (towards the rear of the bus) Yeah, I know, confusing about what is front and back.

I think it is at the back, but I am not sure.

[davidmbrady]

Hi Richard,

Great job!

The exhaust shield fits on cylinders five and six.

BTW, was it difficult getting the new liner set to the proper deck height, -.0005 to .003"? Did you shim it?