What is the left brake pedal 1991 - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:51 PM   #1
jdaniel
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Default What is the left brake pedal 1991

I have a 1991 42' coach #297. I've had it 5 years and love it. I recently found this forum and now check it everyday. My question is I have a brake pedal on the left side but when I push it nothing happens. Anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:42 PM   #2
Richard and Rhonda
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Oh, this is going to be interesting. I swear I think mine has one on the far right side of the coach in the passenger foot well. Well, at least I think there is one over there, because I see Rhonda pressing on it from time to time when I'm stopping.

Wow, Mike will probably know off the top of his head.

But in the mean time, does it actually move when you press on it like the real brake pedal?

Have you removed the carpet panel to see what it is hooked to, i.e. does the brake pedal actuate a cylinder with air lines into and out of it?

Can you post a picture, we would love to see this.
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1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:52 PM   #3
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A photo would be helpful as I have never seen a brake pedal on the left side of the steering column. If it is on the far left side, I would suspect it is a foot rest for the driver's left foot. I have seen some pedals on other coaches on the far left side that activated the air horns or even the engine brake but I have not seen either on a 1990's model Newell.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:00 PM   #4
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I don't think I was clear. My throttle and regular brake pedal are both on the right side of the steering column. I have what I assume is some kind of jake or other kind of brake pedal on the left side of the sterring column. It does have air lines hooked to it but when I push it I can feel anything happen.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:01 PM   #5
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When I push it I CAN'T feel anything happen.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:11 PM   #6
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The plot thickens.

So it's definitely not a foot rest. Have you traced the air lines? Is the pedal a match for the real brake pedal? or does it look like something added after the original build?

Does the brake pedal actuate the same type of device that the real brake pedal does? Do the brake lights come on when you press this pedal?

I wonder out loud if any of the previous owners towed a large trailer with the coach. Is there any sort of air connection around the hitch for hooking up air brakes to a towed trailer or car? I am thinking it could be an independent air brake for the towed trailer or car.

Have you asked Newell if they have any knowledge of this critter.

When you say nothing happens, I assume you mean no braking occurs when you press the pedal. Does anything change if you press the pedal while you are also pressing the real brake pedal?

When you press this mystery pedal do the air guages move like they do when you press the real brake pedal?

Where are you geographically? Inquiring minds want to see this thing :-)
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Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:25 PM   #7
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If there are air lines going to it, that rules out the jake brake which is electrically activated. If it looks like a suspended brake pedal, that rules out the foot rest or an air horn pedal. The only things I can think of was a relocation of the brake pedal (i.e. a secondary brake pedal) or, as Richard mentioned, a separate brake pedal for air brakes to a heavy trailer. Do you happen to have air connectors on the rear of your coach for a trailer with air brakes?

You certainly have our curiosity peaked. Photos, we love photos. If you have any questions about uploading a photo to this site, let us know.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:26 PM   #8
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I'll get photos monday. I'm leaving for Tuscaloosa (roll tide) in a few minutes. The pedal looks almost like the throttle pedal and says "williams controls" on it. I can't feel it do anything but I'll play with it again on the trip. ONE time when I picked it up from the shop I noticed the eng. temps and trans temps running high and ended up finding the mystery pedal stuck in the down position. I raised it back up with my hand and it was fine again. I'll also check and see if it's actually air going to the pedal or electronics but I can tell the pedal is hooked to something.
I'm in Montgomery Alabama.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:57 PM   #9
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You certainly have a mystery pedal. I have looked at literally hundreds of Newells and never seen such a pedal in that location.

Do your air gauges change when the pedal is pressed?
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8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:14 PM   #10
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Another thought. Which transmission do you have? Is it the typical Allison HT-740? The comment about the transmission temperature and engine temperature increasing when the pedal was depressed made me wonder about the potential that you might have a transmission retarder that is activated by the mystery pedal.

Do you notice any difference in the deceleration of the coach with the mystery pedal depressed?
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8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:25 PM   #11
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The Williams controls are usually electronic, and that is usually the "gas" pedal. Still could be a braking circuit for something towed. I am not aware that they make an air treadle pedal like would be used for brakes. Those are usually Meritor or Wabco.

Oh my, Rhonda is a dyed in the wool University of Tennessee girl. I can't tell her that I'm actually corresponding with someone from the dark side.

Tell me that you'll have some ribs at Dreamland while you're in Tuscaloosa.
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Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:23 PM   #12
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It sounds like you may have a train horn.

Perhaps the previous owners left the pedal but took the horn?
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:34 PM   #13
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My apologies- I missed the post reference the 'William's" pedal' . The train horn actuator was a brass pedal, normally located to the left of the steering column. This sounds more like a transmission retarder.

I can check the coach build records on Monday if you like. Please e-mail at johnc@newellcoach.com if you wish follow up.

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Old 10-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #14
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I didn't realize there was anywhere else but Dreamland to eat while in Tuscaloosa???? I won't be making the trip to Tennessee this weekend but my son will. This will be the first game I've missed this year.

John, I'll email you and hopefully you can look this pedal up. I feel like its going to be a transmission retarder. I might feel a "slight" loss of speed when I push it but it's not much. I'm not sure which tranny I have. I remember when I had it serviced a while back they said it was a one or two year only transmission. Said it was an oddball but I've never had any problems. My shifter is a touch pad with N,D,2 and 1 on it.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:26 PM   #15
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Also I have a mistake on my coach number. My coach is number 279 instead of 297. I'll change it on my signature
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:39 PM   #16
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Jdaniel

We built six to eight coaches with transmission retarder's, and we used a Williamson pedal to control the electronics. Enjoy!



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Old 10-21-2008, 05:22 AM   #17
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Thanks John. Great information. Shouldn't surprise me that there would be a few but I have never run across a Newell with a transmission retarder. Were they all built in the early 90's?
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8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:03 PM   #18
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Thanks John. Do you know exactly how the pedal works and how I should use it? I've never used it because I wasn't sure what it was.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:37 PM   #19
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Jimmy, as you press the pedal down it will engage the transmission brake. It may not activate unless the throttle is a 0%. The transmission brake works well BUT they will heat up the transmission quickly so you need to watch the transmission temperature gauge closely when using it going down a long hill. The Allison transmission retarder is hydraulic. The retarders were switched as off or on but on some units, a variable amount of retarding power could be controlled by a lever or pedal. You likely have the HT-748 transmission rather than the HT-740 that most of us have. Under normal operation, the HT-7xx series runs 180-220 degrees F. The max temperature from the converter output should not exceed 300 degrees without the retarder or 330 degress with the retarder. The 748 used an output retarder. The output retarder has a multiplate clutch pack and a vaned rotating element. The control valve releases fluid to fill the retarder cavity and applies the retarder clutch. This absorbs energy and converts it to heat.

According to Allison:

Quote:
CAUTIONS: Observe the following cautions when driving a vehicle equipped with an input or output retarder.
APPLY AND OPERATE THE RETARDER WITH ENGINE AT CLOSED THROTTLE ONLY.
DO NOT USE TH ERETARDER WHEN ROAD SURFACES ARE SLIPPERY. De-energize the system at the master control switch.
OBSERVE TRANSMISSION AND ENGINE TEMPERATURE LIMITS AT ALL TIMES. Select the lowest possible transmission range to increase the cooling system capacity and total retardation available.
In the event of OVERHEATING, DECREASE VEHICLE SLPEED TO REDUCE RETARDATION POWER REQUIREMENTS.
OBSERVE THE RETARED "ALERT LIGHT" to ensure that the vehicle control system is functioning properly.
DO NOT OPERATE THE INPUT OR OUTPUT RETARDER SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH AN ENGINE EXHAUST BRAKE. Extreme torque loads can be produced in the range section, damaging the transmission.
Quote:
R - RETARDER NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY (Models With Output Retarder)
Excessive Retarder Response Time
1. Priority valve sticking - Clean valve
2. Pressure regulator valve sticking -
Clean valve
3. Charging valve sticking -
Clean valve
4. Air lines leaking or incorrect size - Replace air line
5. Clutch piston seals leaking -
Replace seals
6. Accumulator piston seals leaking -
Replace seals
No Retarder Operation at Low Speed
7. No air supply - Check and repair air supply
8. Regulator charging valve sticking - Clean or replace valve
9. Pressure regulator valve sticking - Clean valve
10. Charging valve sticking - Clean valve
11. Check valve malfunctioning, omitted, or installed backwards - Replace or install check valve correctly
12. Clutch piston seals leaking - Replace seals
13. Retarder clutch worn - Replace clutch
No Retarder Operation at High Speed
14. Air supply too low - Check air supply, correct as necessary
15. Air line to retarder control valve ruptured - Replace air line
16. Air control defective -
Repair or replace control
17. Retarder control valve sticking - Clean or replace valve
Low Main and/or Retarder Pressure
18. Charging valve sticking - Clean or replace valve
19. Pressure regulator valve sticking -
Clean or replace valve
20. Rotor hub seals leaking - Replace seals
21. Accumulator piston seals leaking - Replace seals
22. Clutch piston seals leaking - Replace seals
No Retarder Output
23. Throttle (fuel) interlock/wiring defective - Repair interlock/wiring. (Refer to vehicle service manual.)
24. Master switch malfunction - Repair master switch. (Refer to vehicle service manual.)
25. Air actuator piston sealrings damaged - Repair air actuator piston sealrings, retarder valve body
26. Retarder valve sticking - Repair retarder valve body.
Harsh Retarder Apply
27. Plug valve installed incorrectly - Install valve so that dimple on valve is toward springs
28. Pressure regulator valve spring incorrect of broken - Replace spring
Retarder Will Not Release
29. Brake pedal assembly or manual apply valve malfunctioning - Repair brake pedal assembly or manual apply valve. (Refer to vehicle service manual.)
30. Air actuator piston sealrings damaged - Repair air actuator piston sealrings retarder valve body
31. Retarder valve sticking - Repair retarder valve body.
The transmission retarder should be used the same way as the jake brake except the transmission temperature should be monitored much more closely.
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Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:32 PM   #20
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A ha,

Mr. Day, once again, you bring up a great point. Jim, look around a for switch to turn the system on or off. It just may be the reason you couldn't tell any difference when you depressed the pedal was that a master switch is off and the system is disabled.
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Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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