Possible Jake Brake Issues?!?! - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:06 PM   #1
Viva Las Vegas JDR
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Default Possible Jake Brake Issues?!?!

Today it was routine as normal. I wake up prep our coach for travel and hit the open road. Well this morning when I fired up our coach it wasn't running right, especially when I tried to accelerate it. I wasn't sure what the problem was, so I changed out the fuel filter and same thing again. So I noticed the Jake brake was left on, I turned it off and it ran fine. After going down the road a couple of miles, I flipped it back on and all is good.

What do you think happened and is it something I should worry about?

Thanks in advance

JDR
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:06 PM   #2
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My guess is a solenoid just stuck open and you will probably be replacing that solenoid before long.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:26 PM   #3
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I was taught to turn everything off before shutting down the engine. Parking brake set, transmission in neutral, turn off all switches, shut down engine, in that order.

Fewer surprises for the next run.

Joseph
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #4
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The only time I turn off the Jake Brake is when I am entering an area, or town that prohibits the use of engine brakes, otherwise it is always on....especially in town traffic where a little extra braking power is always appreciated. Leaving it in the "on" position should not affect engine performance unless, as someone else said, the solenoid is not working properly.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:48 PM   #5
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Jimmy: I'll get back here later today with more details but the short answer is that if turning off the Jake switch caused the symptoms to go away the problem is likely related to the buffer switch on the side of the governor. Current should not flow beyond that switch at idle or when the throttle is calling for power. As long as you are OK without the Jake for today I wouldn't worry. Do not operate the Jake if it is running as you said at idle as this could hurt the engine if done for long periods and with more throttle.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
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Jimmy: I notice you have an 88 coach, does it have the DDEC system or is the engine controlled through a mechanical governor. Given the symptoms I would suspect a mechanical governor but you need to confirm this before we proceed. THe two types of engines have different control circuits for the Jake.

In either case I suggest you go to the Jacobs Engine Brake website and download the manual for the system. Here is the link to the "mechanical" engine: http://www.jacobsvehiclesystems.com/...dfs/003879.pdf

If this is your engine you will want the section titled "Control System Installation".

Now, a a quick review of how the system operates. On my engine with a single stage of engine braking electric power is supplied to the "Jake Brake" switch on the dash. When that switch is on power then flows to the "buffer switch" on the governor. The buffer switch passes power only when the engine is above idle speed and the governor is calling for no fuel (engine is coasting and being driven by the vehicle rather than driving the vehicle). When the "buffer switch" closes it passes power to a solenoid under the valve cover for each bank of cylinders. Energizing that solenoid valve changes an oil pressure at the exhaust valves that opens them just as the piston is near the top but not in a position to hit the exhaust valves. The high pressure in the cylinder is released through the exhaust instead of pushing the piston down so the engine essentially becomes a big air compressor absorbing power from the drive wheels and slowing the vehicle.

If the engine has multiple stages the power flow starts at the "buffer switch", goes the the stage selection switch on the dash and then to the solenoid valves under the valve covers. There will be one solenoid valve for each stage.

The setting of the buffer switch is critical because if it comes on too soon the engine will be trying to brake and provide power at the same time - the kind of thing that could cause damage. If it comes on too late no braking will occur. When adjusting the buffer switch you are adjusting its position relative to a part inside the governor. Do not adjust the switch or its mounting on the bracket as this will really mess things up. The other advice relative to adjustments is to take it slow with 1/8 turn adjustments. On mine I went from having a rough engine with banging at higher engine speeds to operating properly 1/4 turn out. Following the manual cautiously will be just fine if you have good mechanical skills.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:20 PM   #7
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While the explanations I gave in the two messages above remain valid, following some research I've realized there are two more possibilities for the symptoms described in the original post (again assuming a mechanical governor).

The focus is the buffer switch mounted on the side of the governor. During shutdown, the stop engine actuator pushes out on the same linkage that actuates the buffer switch to turn the Jakes on. This is OK since fuel is shut off by the actuator. Though it has never happened to me I believe it is possible that the rod actuating the buffer switch could get stuck in the actuated position following shutdown of the engine. Pushing it back in and then trying to see if a cycle of acceleration/decelleration results in normal operation would test if this was an aberration or if the buffer switch assmebly needs replacing.

The other possibility is that the when actuated during shutdown the contacts in the buffer switch managed to weld themselves together. The test for this would be that whenever the dash switch is turned on the Jakes come on immediately AND when electrically testing for resistence across the buffer switch in the unactuated position (see paragraph above to determine that it is unactuated) there is infinite resistence or what is known as an open.

If as I understand the symptoms went away during the day's drive (that is the Jake switch turned on and things operated normally) I would suspect that the actuator hung up during shutdown and the following day the warming of the engine and vibration caused it to return to normal.

If the symptoms reappear I would proceed as follows: check that the actuating rod for the buffer switch is not stuck in the out position, if it is not then check for welded contacts in the switch, if they are not then readjust the buffer switch as described in the Jacobs manual.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #8
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Of course the Jake should not operate at idle speed, but I will comment only on the suggestion to turn off the Jake switch off. I do not turn my Jake off and it is always on. I installed a relay that allows the Jake to operate only when the brake lights are on. For me this is a safety issue that in case of an emergency stop, the Jake operates without having to think of switching it on. Thus, the Jake does not operate in city traffic, which enables me to cruise, until I apply the brakes. I have a bypass switch to operate the Jake on a long downhill run when I do not want to use the brakes.
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