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01-17-2012, 05:04 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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round headlights
hi,
my 2002 has 4 round headlights.
does anyone know the part numbers of the lenses and of the lamps themselves? my son was over tonite with his chrysler 300c SRT8 (awesome car by the way) and his HID lights were brighter and whiter than the ones on the coach. (we compared them in the driveway).
if no one happens to have the part numbers and which ones they use, i will have to crawl up there and find out.
are they HID's?
thanks
tom
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01-17-2012, 10:44 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 306
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Hi Tom,
I don't have any part numbers, but I just took my bulbs out and went to autozone and bought new bulbs... Seems like they were $30 or so. I think Newell started installing the HID bulbs in 04
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01-17-2012, 10:46 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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that explains why they are not killer bright then. has anyone done an hid conversion on these?
tom
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01-18-2012, 12:24 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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Tom,
If you decide to do the HID conversion, please replace the lenses with HID specific lenses. It is possible to retrofit existing lenses with HID kits. They do put a lot of light out there, but they also blind the oncoming drivers with glare. Lenses are designed with a very tight specification for where the filament must be located within the reflector housing. When you switch types of bulbs, the filament location goes out the window.
Of course, I am going to say to try to find the Euro HID lenses............
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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01-18-2012, 01:03 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 346
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Richard is so right on this one. Folks just run out and purchase an ignitor and HID bulb and stuff it in a reflector designed for halogen. The light it bright and the driver is happy, but the light is blasted in all directions including into the eyes of oncoming drivers. It's all illegal, but LEOs are not equipped to enfore. The stats for night driving show it to be a much more dangerous time to drive, so I just try to plan my trips for daylight. Russ
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01-18-2012, 01:52 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
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The links I posted for the Hella HID Xenon lamps are the real deal, a matched set of bulbs, reflector, and lens. They're not cheap, but the prices have been coming down, thanks to the beneficial euro/dollar exchange rate. The high beams do need to be used judiciously. They're like a 747 coming in for a landing. The low beams have a very sharp european style cutoff that completely eliminates glare to oncoming drivers. NFI
David Brady
'02 Blue Bird Wanderlodge LXi, NC
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01-19-2012, 12:47 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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We need to get David in a Newell. Seriously, lot's of similarities with the owners over on their forum. There's just a lot more of them.
Yeh, the online source that David linked supplies Euro spec lights for "off road use"
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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01-19-2012, 01:13 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard and Rhonda
We need to get David in a Newell. Seriously, lot's of similarities with the owners over on their forum. There's just a lot more of them.
Yeh, the online source that David linked supplies Euro spec lights for "off road use"
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Thanks Richard, I'd be very proud to own a Newell. I've had my LXi for 8 years and am feeling the need for something different, but I'm also a member of POG!
That's true, the high beam 90mm HID Xenon lamps aren't DOT legal, the low beams are. I've been running the high beams on the road for 5 years or so with no issues. I even have an annual Federal Safety Inspection done on my bus and it always passes.
David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi, NC
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01-20-2012, 10:34 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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my front lights are hella 90mm H1 lamps. they dont make that model anymore with H1 bulbs and the new lenses are available with H9 bulbs which are a lot brighter.
as most of you know, the brightness is heavily influenced by the voltage at the bulb. with the engine on at fast idle AND the low beams on, i measured 14.1v at the alternator. with the lowbeams still on and engine still running, i measured 12.1volts at the actual bulb itself. that drop is enough to take the light intensity down to 67% according to charts i look at.
i would have thought that newell used relays for the lighting circuit by the time my coach was built, but evidently not.
so, with my lenses so pitted, i am probably going to replace them with new exact replacment Hella's. they are avail at rallylights.com for about $60 each. i will also wire up relays and run new wiring to the headlights. the H9 bulbs in the new replacement enclosures are alot brighter alone and with better voltage at the lights it should be a ton brighter.
have a look here. pretty interesting and mike is very nice to talk to on the phone.
http://www.headlightservices.com/Wiring.html
another project....
tom
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01-22-2012, 04:41 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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i stand partially corrected. there are two relays for the headlights but i am not quite sure how they are connected yet. i will have to trace them out. since there is a 2v drop to the lights, something isnt right yet.
i ordered the new lights so that will be a start.
tom
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01-22-2012, 01:34 PM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
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Does your RV have a DRL (Daytime Running Light Module)? DRL modules power the headlamps to achieve 50% brightness. This could be the reduced voltage that you're measuring. When I upgraded to xenon HID's I had to eliminate the DRL. The ballast that power the xenon's isn't compatible with DRL's.
David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi
NC
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01-22-2012, 06:37 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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the headlights are not on unless the headlight switch is on. so i do not have DRL's.
tom
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02-01-2012, 02:05 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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i decided to trace my headlight wiring out. it is wired pretty strangely. there are two relays but not as i would have wired them. i checked the voltages in and out of the power relays (2 of them). there was a .5-.6 volt drop across the relay with the engine running at fast idle and the headlights on. that isnt right. so i got a couple of new relays and put them in. no voltage drop at all there. so i gained 1/2 volt just from replacing both relays. the old ones must have been pitted and i bet they were original.
1/2 volt picks up about 12% in additional lumens.
it is easy to check. the relays are behind the passenger electrical kick panel in front of the passenger seat. remove the cover. on mine there are rows of relays. just pry the two lighting relays out enough where you can get a voltmeter probe on the terminals while it is still in the socket enough to work. do all of your measurements with the engine running at fast idle and the headlights initially on low beam
then measure the voltage on the 12v bus to see what the starting voltage is. then measure at the incoming terminal on the relay. on mine that was the one facing front or #30 on the relay. then measure the outgoing power on the relay (back one and #87 on the relay on mine). there should be no voltage drop between the two pins.
the other relay on mine is the hi/low beam and is triggered when the high beam is on. same thing there but check with high beam on. there will be less voltage on both because of more current draw with all 4 lights on, but it should be the same on both pins again.
i know everyone is hung up on only using hella or tyco (formerly bosch) relays, but i have used radioshack ones with no issues. and they were only 5 bucks. they are the standard 4 pin auto relay at 40 amps.
now to get the new lamps and brighter bulbs.....
i like to drive at night and love to have bright headlights.
tom
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02-01-2012, 04:03 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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pictures of the relay and the pitted contacts.
tom
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02-02-2012, 12:23 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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yea, i am very familiar with them. i will get some at some point. i should have had them ship them when i got the new headlights from rallylights.com, but i didnt.
the originals didnt have the diode. not that i shouldnt now...
good thing for others to know though.
the relays with diodes are not easy to find locally.
tom
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02-02-2012, 12:58 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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you know you could have saved 5 bucks if you woulda just burnished the contacts on the the old ones
just sayin
don't laugh, it's gotten me out of a jam before
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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02-02-2012, 04:05 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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ok, tonite i fully traced out the headlight wiring.
i think i am going to redo it. the way they did it is not optimum for keeping the voltage loss to a minimum, especially if you are using higher current drawing bulbs than original.
both the high and low beams are powered together through a single dc circuit breaker and fed with single 12gauge wire splitting off through the relays to all 4 headlights.
off of the low beam relay there is a single 12 gauge wire that goes to the passenger side low beam lamp and then pigtails off at the lamp and then goes to the driver side lamp.
same for the high beams. so a single 12 gauge wire feeding both sides.
there was a small green wire in the pigtail at the drivers side bright headlight underneath. i was puzzled till i traced it to the bright indicator lamp on the dash.
on each side they tied the high and low beam lamps together and grounded them to the frame.
i think i will run a breaker or fuse for high and low. then replace the single 87 relays with dual 87 relays and run new dedicate 12 g wires to all 4 headlights. i may run dedicated grounds, but not sure.
fun stuff.
later
tom
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02-02-2012, 03:20 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Home base is Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 449
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Boy, I wish I accumulated 1/10th the knowledge of you guys in my 10 years of road travel. I'm sure the age of your coaches has made this knowledge base grow faster, but I really admire what Tom,Tuga and so many others take on. I thought I was pretty handy until I started reading all your posts. I have resolved several issues with your combined knowledge. I would also like to add that Tommy Keys,Mike Ellis, Jim G and several service people at Newell have been a terrific resource too.
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Larry & Hedy Brachfeld
2003 Double Slide, Detroit 60
Coach # 646
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