How to find air leaks in the supply system - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:22 AM   #1
Ron Skeen
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Default How to find air leaks in the supply system

I need help in how to find leaks in the air supply system. I have been hunting leaks for the last 5 years. Are there any drawings to show how the air is plumbed in a 96? What tanks supply what components? Are there distrubution block for different areas? Any other plan of attack? I have sprayed with soap and water on all joints, fittings, and lines. Both tanks on the brake system maintain pressure for days. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:14 AM   #2
Wally Arntzen
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Check all of your air switches, preasure control valves, air pistons that operate doors. generator compartment, etc. If you have air operated wipers check the wiper air switches and the motors. Spray all of the tanks at the weld joints and look for cracks in the joints. I had problems in all of these areas and have an air tight system for over two years now. It is possible to have a failed line but I think that is rare. All of my leaks were in check valves, switches, preasure valves and air tank welds.
I replaced every check valve, air switches, control valves, wiper switches and motors and two large tanks and one small tank for the toilet.
Living in the coach full time my 110 air pump goes on an average of twice in 24 hours with two of use the air operated tiolet.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:24 PM   #3
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Thanks Wally I have never check the air pistons and switches will try next. I change all air bags, ride height control valves, leveling selenoids and the coach will stay raise for several days. Also the 12 volts system seem to have no leaks which operate the toleit and pocket doors. What goes out with the 110 pump is off is the step cover, sewer dump, driver seat, and the air supply gauges on dash and in engine compartment both go to zero in about 5 hrs. I have turn both cut-off which are in front of drive axle and it still make no difference. Thanks for your help
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:11 PM   #4
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Hey Ron you could just buy my coach!!!!! I want a slides!!
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:22 AM   #5
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Ron, I know it is of little consolation but Newell considers the auxiliary air system to be satisfactory if it doesn't leak down more than 15-20 pounds per 45 minutes. The air leveling system and air brakes should hold air for extended periods of time.
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:04 PM   #6
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Thanks Michael and (Matt). I know both eng and 110 air goes first to the air dryer D/S tag comp? Then to supply tank? then to distrubution boxes? Then to defferent air devices? Do you know where these are located? Thanks for your help.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:29 AM   #7
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While there may be some differences from year to year, the engine compressor goes through the air dryer then to the wet tank in the front of the coach, just behind the front axle. The 120 volt air compressor also feeds that same wet tank but not through the rear dryer on my coach. I have a separate dryer on the 120 volt pump. The wet tank feeds the front and rear brake tanks through hoses with check valves in them. The front brake tank is slightly behind the wet tank and somewhat above it on my coach. The rear brake tank is just ahead of the rear axle. If the check valves are working properly, the wet tank can lose air without the brake tanks losing air. There are also connections off the wet tank to feed all the air slide-out trays including the generator, any air slides in the bays, and the cover over the stairwell. Lines feed the air pocket doors (on those coaches that have them), the air-ride seat, the air-dump valve, the air horns, the air powered dash HVAC defrost vent directors (through a vacuum generator on mine), etc. Each of these has a separate line coming off of the air distribution lines and running to the various locations throughout the coach. Therein lie the problem. There are dozens of fittings with air lines running in multiple directions depending on where the air powered items are on your coach. Each switch has additional fittings then the connections where the air lines run to the air rams that move the slide, trays, doors, etc.

As an example, the air line that feeds my air-ride seat comes up through the floorboard in front of the driver then runs along the drivers side of the coach then across to the seat. Under the seat is a T fitting that supplies air to the switch that control the ride height of the base of the seat and to the switches that control air to each of the two bladders in the back of the seat. At each switch the air line comes in and one or more air lines go out along with an air discharge port. The potential air leak sources can multiple in a hurry.

Then you have the air system for the leveling system. That one is nice and complex. Richard is the master of the air leveling system but the very short version is air is feed from the wet tank into long rectangular leveling tanks that are mounted along the frame rails. These in turn feed the leveling control units (6 packs) which are controlled by the ride height valves, the level sensor and the master level control electronic unit. There is a 6 pack in the front of the coach for the front suspension and with a tag, two in the rear, one for the drive axle and one for the tag. Literally dozens of air lines and fittings involved there. Then you have the air fitting to the air supply in the engine compartment (typically) where you can air up tires or use an auxiliary air supply to fill the air leveling system. More chances for leaks there. I removed the fitting from the air supply in the engine compartment and put an inline shutoff valve behind the fitting so I could isolate that source of potential air leaks.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:59 AM   #8
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the swivel air fittings they used have a plastic ring on them to push down to release the tubing. the time has made those brittle and i have replaced quite a few of them.

like wally has said, if it really matters, then you need to start and work your way through.

the cost can really add up.

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Old 07-13-2010, 08:07 PM   #9
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Thanks Michael and Tom, I will try some of the things suggestive. I thinks my tanks maybe installed with both brake tanks up front and the supply tank in the rear of the coach. I only have the one dryer in the rear and thinks boths air supply goes to it first. When I get time I will try tracing lines. Do they make any kind of dye that can be put in air lines to show leaks? I have spray soap everwhere possibe with no signs of leaks. Are there a better substance to use than soap for leak check? Thanks for your suggestion and help.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:46 AM   #10
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There are always options... Soap and water are the least costly. You can buy a ultra sonic leak detector that will find any size leak.. about $400 or prehaps a fog tester that large truck shops use.. about $1400.. Tom likes toys.. prehaps we can talk him into one... then we'll borrow it!
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:53 AM   #11
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Ron,

Like you I continue to look for leaks. Here is what I am discovering with time. Hidden air connections. For example there is a a whole set of fittings and manifold hidden away that controls the air pocket door.

I also found a significant leak in the manifold that controls the air op dump valve. Yes it is well hidden behind some panels.

I also found one in a fitting hidden underneath the generator blower.

Don't forget to check the air valve for the gennie slide.

I also found a leak in my check valve on the 110 compressor, allowing air to run back through it when it wasn't running.

Happy hunting.

And good luck on the air line diagram.

I'll be at Newell in a couple of weeks and that is one of the things I am going to ask about. I hate to have to take my coach apart to figure it out.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:42 AM   #12
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Jimmy and Richard thanks for the tips. The ultra sonic leak detector dosn't sound too bad for 400 if it work? I already got 100's man hours hunting and many dollar in changing parts. You don't put up with a small water leak so why do we have to tolerate air leaks? Is it because water dose damage and air only causes stress? Thanks again for everone suggestions.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:23 AM   #13
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When I smoked I could find just about any leak with my cig or soapy water. I say that if you're looking under the coach, block it and buy a smoker a beer, then ask him to fire one up and crawl under the coach (make sure that he has a chance to drink the first beer before asking!)
If the leak is inside I cannot suggest anything other than a candle or someone who will cause trouble later.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:07 AM   #14
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This is one brand..
http://www.testersandtools.com/Ampro...k-Detector.php

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Skeen View Post
Jimmy and Richard thanks for the tips. The ultra sonic leak detector dosn't sound too bad for 400 if it work? I already got 100's man hours hunting and many dollar in changing parts. You don't put up with a small water leak so why do we have to tolerate air leaks? Is it because water dose damage and air only causes stress? Thanks again for everone suggestions.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:47 PM   #15
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A little cheaper than buying my coach, Ron, you could buy the tool and rent it out!!!
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:17 PM   #16
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I've always heard the right tool for the job. After spending hours under the coach with soapy water I found no leaks although I suspected I still had one or more. Jimmy suggested the ultrasonic leak detector so I started researching them. Santa brought me a led hands free head light and a Inficon, Whisper, ultrasonic leak detector. This tool is different from the one Jimmy suggested, but works great for about 1/2 the price. I found two leaks right off the bat in the R-1 bay. There are two very tiny leaks in the air tank. I didn't find them with soapy water, they are so small. This tool makes them sound like major air leaks. Get within about a foot of an air leak & you know it. I then went under the coach with the hands free led light and the leak detector & tried every air fitting & tank I could find. I also tested all the six packs and air lines. I found no other leaks. This tool is a real time saver.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:29 PM   #17
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Default Good report!

Happy to hear it worked..
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:02 AM   #18
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The air tank with the leaks is 6" in diameter and about 22" long. It mounts above the genset air blower in the right front compartment. Has anyone replaced one? If so what was your source?

Thanks in advance..................
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:01 AM   #19
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Well, you rascal, that just cost me 200 bucks.

Time to get serious about air leaks !!!!
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:09 PM   #20
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Richard,
Since I'd never used one I didn't know what to expect. Again Jimmy came up with a great idea! Very quickly and without any doubt you will know if you have a leak or not. Gives peace of mind I wasn't getting with the soapy water. And you'll know definite results much quicker than you did before. I think you'll find it is one of the better $200 you have spent. Now I'm on a mission to find the unobvious air lines & couplings.
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