Air tank in right rear fender well

Richard and Rhonda · 01-16-2009, 12:47 PM

I have a curiosity question. I have a small air tank in the right rear fender wheel in front of the drive tires. Do any of you know what that tank is for?

Wally Arntzen · 01-16-2009, 01:29 PM

Hi Richard,

The tank is for you air operated toilet. If you do not have an air operated toilet I don't what else it would be for. I replaced mine and moved it into the water bay on the passenger side.
Mine was rusted and had a small leak from all of the debris it catches so close to the wheels and I got a new one from Newell. Its an easy change.

Good luck and happy travels, Wally Arntzen

asuperdave20 · 01-16-2009, 02:41 PM

When I called Newell about my air system last month, they told me that it is a secondary tank for the 12V air compressor that only works the doors and toilets. It does not work with the valid air leveling system or air slide seals. If you turn off your 120V air compressor and flush toilets and open and close air doors, you should hear the 12v compressor kick on within 5 min or so. I do believe they are tied together somehow with the 120V system as when I turn the 120 compressor back on, I can hear the 12v tank fill. On my 12v pump, there is a knob that is supposed to be on 60psi and that controls how fast ur doors close and is the suggested psi to make ur toilets work right.

Then again, since our coaches are 8 years apart, it might be different.

Dave #656

tuga · 01-16-2009, 05:43 PM

Dave,

My 12v air pump operates my air toilets, air pocket doors, and my air seals on the 2 slides. The way it was explained to me by Mike Ellis @ Newell: the 120v auxillary air pump will provide air to everything in the coach. So the 120v air pump can back up the 12v pump, but the 12v pump can not back up the 120v pump.

It makes sense because the 12v pump couldn't provide enough air to the leveling system to raise the coach. But it can provide enough air to flush toilets, open and close pocket doors, and keep the air seals inflated.

Again, my coach is a 1999. Looks like the 2003 Newells are a little different.

Richard and Rhonda · 01-16-2009, 06:36 PM

Thank you so much, this has been very helpful.

I also have the 12v pump that runs the toilet, however, it does not operate the pocket doors. I would like to be able to run the pocket door without having to leave the 120v compressor on and listen to it cycle at night.

So, what I gleaned is that I should pipe my pocket door into that tank and not directly into the coach air system. Great !!! Now my bride and I can have a little privacy from the teenage boys at night.

chockwald · 01-16-2009, 07:53 PM

Richard....you will love it when the teens are up and out making their fortunes......lots more privacy, and lots more of everything important....LOL!

Wally Arntzen · 01-17-2009, 03:01 AM

Hi Richard,

My coach is a 1988 and has a 120 volt compresser that runs only when i'm plugged into an electric source and provides air to all of my air tanks. I have a limit control switch that turns the compresser on when it gets down to 60 pounds and goes off when it reaches 90 pounds.
If I user air from any source, such as the air slide for the generator, toilet, floor slide over my stairs or provide new air to the air bags this compressor will go on and refill the tanks that are distributing air.
The small air tank for the toilet on my coach is for my toilet only and has a preasure guage that I keep the air at 60 pounds and have an air control swich to control the volume of air provided to the tank.
I do no have a 12 volt air compresor on my coach so that must be something they added on the later coaches.
I full time in my coach and I have replaced all of the check valves on all tanks, all of my air switches, and my air motors and switches for the air operated windshield wipers.

My air system is very tight and my air compresor goes on once or twice a day while living in the coach all of the time.

I also relaced two of my large air tanks as well as the one for the toilet because they had leaks in the welded seams.

I don't know if any of this is of help to you but I hope so.

Wally Arntzen

tuga · 01-17-2009, 12:46 PM

I would just like to remind everyone to drain the water out of your air tanks and air filters. There is usually a little petcock that can be opened to drain the water out. In the later model Newells a spin on air filter is located in the driver's side tag fender well.

Check with Newell to see where all of the air tanks/air filters are located.

You also want to drain your fuel tank at the petcock.

fulltiming · 01-17-2009, 06:50 PM

Excellent advise Tuga. I drained my air tanks at the last service and got a little moisture out of each one. Since then, I have serviced the air dryer for my engine driven air compressor. I drain the air dryer on the 120 volt air compressor frequently in humid environments.

I also open the petcocks on the fuel tanks and on the fuel/water separators several times a year.

Richard and Rhonda · 01-19-2009, 12:37 AM

Thanks to all for the info.

I have the both the 120 AC and the 12VDC compressors. However, despite using gallons of soapy water and reworking the leveling valves, I still not have located a leak in the coach air system. If I have the 120 AC compressor on while parked, it will cycle once per hour or so. One day I will find that leak, it's become personal if you know what I mean.

My 12 V compressor is set at about 30 lbs so I will crank it up a bit and see if it does indeed operate the pocket door.

Richard and Rhonda · 01-19-2009, 01:17 PM

Yep, I have found some interesting leaks. One of the solenoid valves for the air op dump valve was leaking by, the check valve at the 120V compressor was leaking back, the actual cylinder seal for the air cyl for the generator slide was leaking.

The only thing that I have not accessed is the solenoids and piping for the air pocket door, and that's because you have to disassemble a number of panels in the closet to get access. It is next on my list.

I did run a rather interesting experiment. When the coach system was completely empty, I put a little R134a in the air system, and then pumped it on up with the compressor. Using my refrigerant sniffer, which is a sensitive little devil, I was able to find a few leaks that I had not detected with soapy water.

Wally Arntzen · 01-19-2009, 01:49 PM

Hi Richard,

Check the flush handle on your toilet and the control valve for the toilet air tank if you have one. The control valve went out on mine a month and I got a new one at grainger for 26.00. I fought the leaks for four years and after changing everything I now got it tight as I think possible. It sure nice to have the pump go on one or two times in 24 hours as it does now with two or us living full time in it.

Good luck, I like your idea of adding something to the system.
Wally

encantotom · 01-19-2009, 02:51 PM

i found a leak on one of the fittings that go on the air slide valve control for the generator.

the fittings were part plastic and part brass, so i changed them to all metal. with those on mine, i had to use swivel fittings to be able to get them on. the old ones were too.

tom

fulltiming · 01-19-2009, 01:51 AM

Richard, according to Newell Service, their guideline for air leaks is if the system loses less than 20 psi, the typical amount needed to cause the compressor to come on, in 40 minutes or more it is such a small leak that it is considered within spec. As the newer coaches added more air-operated 'stuff', more fitting and more opportunities for leaks present themselves.

As I recall Clarke and Elaine's coach uses air for the brakes and suspension only. Tom's coach adds an air slide for the generator, mine adds an air slide in one bay, air sewer dump valve on the passenger's side and an air slide for the step cover. Yours adds air pocket doors and the air toilet so lot's of opportunities for small leaks over time.

That not withstanding, I KNOW that you will track down those leaks and repair them.

asuperdave20 · 01-19-2009, 04:22 PM

My 120 pump is cycling every 13 minutes and runs for 15 seconds. My front and rear brakes hold air fine. I have no idea where to start, air chassis, 3 air doors (2 pocket plus front entry door), 3 air room slide outs (seals), air gen slide, 2 air toilets, 2 air waste dump valves, 2 air tanks ect...air air air!!!!! It would be nice to only hear that thing once an hour. Ive got the spray bottle with soap, just dont know where to even start.

encantotom · 01-19-2009, 04:28 PM

with that many air operated items, i think the only way is to submerge the bus into a large water tank and see where the bubbles are coming from.

if you don't want to do that, you just need to spray soapy water or windex on all the places that there are fittings or valves or things that hold air in the air system. easier said than done.

wally replaced all the valves and fittings in his coach it granted, it is much simpler than yours, but it holds air incredibly well.

i have went around and checked for leaks everywhere i could and replaced a number of fittings, check valves etc and it is lot better but still not as good as wally. you have a much larger and more complex coach than ours and it is possible but will just take some detective work. take it one area at a time and start eliminating things.

tom

fulltiming · 01-19-2009, 05:40 PM

Dave, one thing you said, made me wonder. You indicated the pump only ran 15 seconds. Could you watch the gauge and see what the pressure is when the pump comes on and the pressure when the pump cuts off again. It could be that your pump pressure is not adjusted properly. Typically you don't want it cycling on for that little time. Mine has an adjustable pressure switch in the bay with the 120 volt pump.

More info would help. Incidentally, mine is set to come on at 73 psi and shut off about 93 psi and mine runs for several minutes to build up the 20 psi. You certainly want it to come on before it gets down to 60 psi. My air bay slide and step cover don't work below about 60-63 psi.

Wally Arntzen · 01-19-2009, 09:09 PM

Dave,
The box that Michael is refering to is the limit control switch and has to set screws on it.
If you open the box you can set one screw to start the the compresor at 70 pounds of less and the other is to set the off preasure which should be 90 pounds. If the limit control switch is bad it could be causing the compresor to go on and off for short periods like you are suggesting.
I would try and get the limit control switch checked out and start chasing on item at a time. soap them up good or use the additive that Michael mentioned and replace every leaking fiting you find. Make sure you check the check valves because they get gummed up and will not let the air stay in the tanks. The check valve will let air go into the tank and locks in place so the air cannot go backwords into the supply lines.
It is a time consuming job but it is something that you can track down.

DO NOT GO UNDER THE COACH AND START REMOVING CHECK VALVES OR OTHER FITTINGS WITHOUT PUTTING SOME STANDS OR JACKS UNDER THE COACH. IF YOU TAKE OUT OR LOOSEN THE WRONG THING YOU CAN DROP THE COACH VERY SUDDENLEY, WHICH COULD BE TRAGIC.

Wally

asuperdave20 · 01-20-2009, 02:49 PM

Hi everyone, thanks for all the help, (i love the one about putting it under water and looking for bubbles the best!!). I have zero gauges in the front where the 120 compressor is. I do have a gauge in the aqua hot compartment where the 12v is, and Newell said it is supposed to be set at 60lbs as it is some control for the toilet and pocket doors. They said any less and the doors will be slow and more the doors will slam, same with toilet, less wont flush right, and more could blow out plumbing. I tested that and they are right.

Newell also said that if I turn the Valid leveling system off when I am parked, the 120 comp will not try to level and use air. So I did that and air bags hold air but compressor still cycled every 14 min. Then they said to turn the 120 off and if slide out seals have a leak, a slide alarm will go off because the 12v does not inflate the slide seals. Well before I went to bed, I turned the 120 off and wouldnt you know it, 7 hours later the alarm went off saying front slide inflating (but cant because its on 12v). I went outside and sure enough, the front slide seal was soft, and the two rear slide seals are hard.

So I think I have isolated one leak and now will use the soap to try to hunt it. Newell said the actual rubber seals are tough, so it probably a fitting somewhere that leads to it.

I will keep you all up to date and thanks again,

Dave #656

fulltiming · 01-20-2009, 05:40 PM

Since your coach is much newer, they may have moved/eliminated some of the gauges I have on mine, however, I was referring to the gauges on the dash. You should have a double needle gauge for brake air and a single needle gauge for system air or supply air. This Supply Air is the gauge I would like to determine at what pressure the 120 volt pump comes on and the pressure on that gauge when the pump cuts off.

Turning off the leveling system is something I always do when parked. I turn it back on every couple of weeks just to confirm it is still level and turn it back off again. Minor adjustments as people move around in the coach will cause the level to shift slightly and cause the air compressor to come on. Certainly any valid (no pun intended) use of air will cause the compressor to come on such as opening and closing the outside air door or the pocket doors.