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Old 12-10-2007, 12:43 PM   #1
Richard and Rhonda
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Default Headlight Upgrade Information for 90's Newell Coach

I am posting an incredibly informative reply I got from a headlight guru. I thought it was good reference material.

My headlamps don't provide enough light on low beam for safe driving at night, so I am going to upgrade them. I am not advertising for this guy, but he may be a great resource if you decide to undertake a project like this. I will post later on my outcome.

The email:

Those are indeed '87-'91 Ford F-series truck headlamps. They use the 9004
> bulb and optical system. The 9004 system itself is optical trash. This
> was Ford's "Better Idea" (remember that ad campaign?) for 1983, and the
> design priorities were cosmetics (aero headlamps instead of sealed beams)
> and low production cost. 9004 headlamps, even with the least-bad bulbs fed
> by proper wiring, will always produce dim, poorly-focused, narrow beams
> with very little light on the road surface and very high levels of upward
> stray light that cause backdazzle in rain, fog, and snow.
>
> There are no well-made overwattage 9004 bulbs, only poorly-made ones from
> the 3rd world, with very sloppy filament placement. Tiny differences in
> filament placement make huge differences in beam focus and performance,
> see attached. The extra light some of these higher-wattage bulbs produce
> is pretty much all wasted: Extra glare and flare light, no extra seeing
> light. And, the stock wiring is inadequate for the extra current drawn by
> these bulbs; using them throws a severe strain on the wiring and switches.
> In most(!) cases you won't have a big spectacular fire or anything, but
> you won't be doing your electrical system any favors, and the damage is
> cumulative to the point of expensive failure. Overwattage 9004 bulbs are
> NOT the way to better seeing.
>
> If you are just trying to make the existing lamps marginally less dim, you
> can put in a relay kit RIK-HB1 and a pair of the least-worst-available
> 9004 bulbs. Those are the GE Night Hawk 9004NH and the Philips VisionPlus
> 9004VP. I don't presently stock either bulb, but a web search should turn
> up a retailer for you. Avoid Sylvania Silverstar/Ultra, Wagner TruView,
> PIAA, Hoen, and all other brands of blue-glass "extra white" or "xenon
> matching" bulbs. They are a scam; despite the advertising hype, they
> significantly reduce headlamp performance rather than increasing it.
>
> If you're trying for a material safety performance improvement via
> significantly better seeing with wider and longer beam reach and reduced
> backglare in bad weather, we will need to look at better-engineered
> headlamp assemblies.
>
> On the internet, you'll find a pile of suggested modifications and
> "upgrades" that are mostly ignorant and ill-advised. Changing to a 9007
> bulb in a headlamp designed for 9004 bulbs makes things considerably
> worse, not better, because now not only have you got a very
> poorly-designed optical system, but you've got a bulb other than what the
> optics are designed for. Kind of like putting somebody else's eyeglasses
> on...they might look OK on your face, but you won't see properly. This
> bulb swap results in greatly increased glare to other road users and
> backscatter in rain, fog, or snow. Please don't do it. And "HID kits" are
> unsafe and illegal, see
> Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
>
> Now...how to do it all right? Well, there's some money that needs
> spending, and a bit of a wait for special-order lamps to come in, but the
> fact is, there are very well made glass-and-metal headlamps available to
> fit your RV. They were factory installed on '87-'91 Ford F-series trucks
> originally sold in export markets with headlamp standards significantly
> more stringent than the US standards. Low and high beam are considerably
> better focused. Low beam is much wider, more even, and longer-reaching,
> while at the same time there's much less glare to other drivers and the
> backdazzle in rain, fog, and snow is totally eliminated. High beam is wide
> and even with considerably greater distance reach. And because the lenses
> are glass, they will never cloud-up and turn yellow like the original
> plastic lenses. Anti-rock guard material is available to prevent the lamps
> cracking or getting sandblasted. A relay kit will be called for, to bring
> full power to the lamps -- see
> Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply -- and if you
> want a daytime running light function, that's doable, too.
>
> As I say, these are special-order lamps. They cost around $156/ea. I do
> have one left-side lamp on the shelf from a factory mixup the last time we
> ordered in a set of these (factory sent two lefts instead of a right and a
> left).
>
> If I were trying to set up a vehicle like yours for really good nighttime
> seeing, I'd replace all four of those cheesy plastic Ford headlights with
> the good glass and metal units. I'd put in a relay package RIK-H4R4, $66.
> The RIK is not a harness, but a _parts kit_ containing all relays,
> brackets, terminal blocks, terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and
> fuseholders. You supply your own wire and use the parts from the kit to
> build up your own wiring harness. Parts are specially made premium-grade
> items (e.g. ceramic headlamp sockets) that accept large-gauge wire; this
> is not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store. You will
> need to run some new wires, but you will _not_ need not cut or otherwise
> disturb any of the vehicle's original wires.
>
> There are various good options for bulb selection. I would probably not
> run the same bulbs in all four lamps. In the outboard units, I'd run Osram
> ultra high efficacy bulbs, either 70/65w or 85/80w. In the inboard units,
> I'd run Narva 100/55w bulbs with re-usable selective-yellow clip-on
> balloons. All four high beams would come on when you select the high beam
> mode. I'd probably put a switch in the line to the inboard low beams; they
> would serve as vastly more effective fog lamps than you have now (assuming
> you have any right now). Of course, all four lamps would need to be
> carefully and correctly aimed, per
> Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply .
>
> If you are interested in having a daytime running light function on your
> vehicle, the best implementation is the full-time operation of the front
> directional signals (except, of course, when they are operating as signals).
> Directional signals produce a light distribution with a wide conspicuity
> angle, are generally well located for DRL service at the outboard edges of
> the front of the vehicle, consume considerably less power than any
> headlamp-based DRL implementation, use light sources of generally much
> longer life than any headlamp bulb, do not encourage improper nighttime use
> of lights, and do not require additional lighting devices to be added. Most
> recent Cadillacs, Chevrolet/GMC large vans and minivans, some Toyota and
> Lexus models, certain new Lincolns and assorted other vehicles use this
> implementation. Note we are talking about the full-time operation of the
> bright amber turn signals, not the dim parking lamps. You can easily enable
> this functionality in your vehicle using a DRL-1 module ($42 here, see
> DRL-1 Daytime Running Lamp Module Installation )
>
> So...give this all some thought, and come back with whatever questions you
> might have.
>
> ORDERING INSTRUCTIONS
>
> Please indicate:
>
> The quantity of each item you wish
>
> The type of shipping you wish -- DHL trackable ground shipping is standard
> on shipments within the US; all other service levels are available on
> request. Shipments to Canada go via Postal EMS unless otherwise specified.
>
> The address to which you want the items shipped, if it differs from the
> billing address
>
> Whether the delivery driver has permission to leave the parcel at your
> doorstep if you are not available to accept it in person.
>
> You may voicemail or fax your order toll-free on 1-866-861-8668. Please note
> this is a recorded orderline only. If you wish to speak to me in person,
> please use 416-766-2327.
>
> Orders may also be sent via e-mail to: dastern@torque.net
>
> We accept Visa and Mastercard. Orders are processed securely.
>
> Whatever method you use, the following information is required in order to
> process a credit card order:
>
> Card type
> Card number
> Expiry date
> CVV code (last group of 3 or 4 digits on back of card)
> Your name as it appears on the card
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> Phone number
>
> Please don't forget to include a note (such as a printout of our e-mail)
> stating exactly which items you are ordering, and where you wish them
> sent.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> DS
>
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:06 PM   #2
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Wow, that is incredibly detailed. it amazes me that there is an expert for everything.

wow, that is a lot of money as well. i have noticed when i did a lot of night driving that the lights were terrible.

now i have to decide if that is something i want to spend that much bucks on.

thanks for posting this!

tom
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:15 PM   #3
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Stay tuned. I am choking on the moolah too. I am looking at other cheaper alternatives. The biggest cost driver is the headlamps are special order. I am looking into cheaper, but equivalent quality alternatives that would require me to fab some bodywork and mounting for either a smaller headlight or projector style headlamp.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:04 AM   #4
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I second the great information comment. I added relays to the headlights on my Newell after the high current loading burned out the dimmer switch. My lights were originally wired with all four low beams coming on when set to low and all four high beams coming on when set to high (and all of the current going through the switch and the dimmer switch). I also disconnected the inner two low beams so others don't 'assume' I have my bright lights on because they see four headlights. I can't really say that having four of the stock low beams is that much better than just having two.

Keep us posted on your search. If it helps, there might be interest in a 'volume' price if several of use agreed to purchase new headlights.

Or for $10,000 you can have Newell change out your front cap for a 2000+ series front cap with the small round headlights. :lol:
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Old 12-30-2007, 02:59 PM   #5
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When I picked up our coach, Sam said that there were two areas that were lacking in the 90's era coaches, headlights and defrosters. He was accurate on both accounts. These lights are severely lacking on clear nights, and much more so during inclimate weather.

Driving on the ALCAN, I was fearful of driving during anything less than daylight for fear of hitting wildlife or encountering some other road hazard. The Yukon/BC border area has roaming buffalo, hitting one of those would really ruin a trip.

I agree with Michael & Tom about the great information you've given us. Thank you!

After checking on the glass replacements mentioned above, I've found that his prices aren't that far off. If anyone proceeds with Mr. Sterns recommendations or some other idea, please let us know if the lighting is indeed substantially improved. Like Michael, I'm also interested in the possibilities of a group purchase.

Paul
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:31 PM   #6
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if they are european headlights, i am going to be in england and ireland on business in a week. if i had part numbers and what they are off of, i could do some quick looking while i am there.

tom
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:08 PM   #7
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I am going to source the lights from Mr. Stern. To save a few bucks I am just going to do the low beams, and and put low beam/ high beam lamps in the Euro reflectors. I will post as soon as I get them and install them.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:11 PM   #8
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What kind of delivery time have you been quoted?

Happy New Year!

Paul
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:02 AM   #9
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BTW, i have the dash totally exposed and i noticed some of my defroster hoses were glued on and had come off underneath. probably why my defrost isnt working very well.

tom
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:47 PM   #10
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Hello Richard,

I'm curious to know if you've any update to your lighting endeavor? A big question is delivery time.
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:50 PM   #11
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Here's an update. I have not obtained the lights from Mr. Stern at this time. After two months of trying he has not provided me a quote. He did say two weeks ago that he had a nasty bout of the flu. I am going to wait until the 1st of March before I go in a different direction.

I'll let you know what I do.

It seemed the most straightforward path was to buy the Euro glass and put in relays. But if Stern doesn't come through, I am going to buy some Euro projector lamps, and install them by fabricating a plate to replace those two huge lamps currently in there.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:05 PM   #12
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Thanks for the update Richard. Please let us know what you come up with.

Tom, did you have any luck while on your trip with sourcing any glass lights?

As we prepare to leave back for Alaska next month, I'm trying to find some alternatives that will allow us to have maximum lighting while on the Alaska Hwy. I do have some Hella 8" driving lights and am thinking about mounting them, but the question is where? I've seen some thin driving lights mounted under the generator slide on Newells before, but didn't believe it would give me the kind of wattage I'm looking for. I'm toying with installing some kind of flat mount under the generator lip that would stick out far enough for the lights to be mounted... Any one have other ideas? If it's a big enough mount, I'm toying with mounting more than one set of lights to include some fog/wide angle lights.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:36 PM   #13
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- Fabricate a plate . . .

- Please 'You 'All . . . Forgive me . . .' ops:
- - - This 'Idea, Terms and Wording Might be T-A-B-O-O . . . but here it goes . . . :mrgreen:

- A Little Something About Co$t :
- - - If you want to fabricate a plate, with round headlights assemblies similar to the 2000 series,
perhaps this idea could be a starting point. :idea:

- The 'Prevost XLII' series has round 'HIGH INTENSITY XENON HEADLIGHTS.'

- Because 300 to 500 'XLII Series' units are produced or so per year, the assemblies might (should)
be lest expensive than others.

- The L:roll::roll:s :
- - - XLII front with its 'High Intensity Xenon Headlights' CLICK HERE

- - - American Carriage XLII front with its 'High Intensity Xenon Headlights' CLICK HERE

- - - Another American Carriage XLII front with its 'High Intensity Xenon Headlights' CLICK HERE

- - - 'Newmar Mountain Aire ' has also something similar to Newell Round Headlights CLICK HERE

- This is a starting point, cost wise ? !
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:48 PM   #14
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- Fabricate a plate . . . Before looking further ;

- My upper post might be extreme (High Grade Lighting Source) :shock: So for starts ;
- - - Did someone get the cost at Newell for the 2 Headlights Assemblies from a 2000 series ?

- - - Does Newell offer something similar to the 2000 series but only the assemblies without
installation ?

- - - Is-it worthwhile for someone to make a mold off a 2000 series but only the bottom part
depending on model year. For model year with the 'Lower Headlights' the fiberglass piece
could be cut at the upper line above the headlights and Newell has a stainless trim that could
hide the joint between the hold and new part without going to far in paint details (see photo)

- - - I'm surprise that Newell doesn't offer only that bottom part as a part package 'Kit' and for
certain the cost would be well under the $10.000 mentioned above. - Perhaps Newell or an as-
sociate could offer a certain package. Are there enough 'Prospects/Clients ?'

» » » » » »
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:13 PM   #15
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Since the front cap is one piece, anything short of replacing the entire cap or using headlights that are nearly identical in size and shape to the factory units would require custom body work and paint.

I understand that there is a company, I believe in Yuma, AZ, that does custom body work on 1996-2000 (approx) Foretravels that used the identical Ford headlights. They remove the lights, fill in the openings with fiberglass and install the small round lights. It would be interesting to find out if they or Newell would make a similar modification at a cost-effective price.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:48 AM   #16
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- Initially called for : Fabricate a plate . . .
- - - I then posted something possible and an all in one part (X 2)
- - - - - - The 'Prevost Assembly Lights' are High Tech Lighting and for sure the cost for these as-
semblies are certainly quite costly. Because they have quite a number of provost on the road, the
price of these assemblies are certainly lest expensive than something similar on the market and I
really don’t know if something can come close
»»»»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««~»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' ««««««««««««
- Now how to fix the 'Light Assembly' in a fix front and guessing the position, alignment, finishing
touch and so on ? Never saw something like that ! Guess never will !

- I did a lot of fiberglass work in my time and time hasn't changed ! . . A little bit easier, that's all !

- Never the hole front cap otherwise buy a newer coach !

- I would at anytime make a mold off the bottom of a 2000 series and have the openings, the posi-
tion and alignment fitting perfectly as a 2000 series and all components assembled on a workbench.

- If the interest is worthwhile, Newell would certainly have to look closer and see if their glass de-
partment or a supplier could manufacture the components as a kit form or perhaps assemble them,
a kind of plug & play, at a fairly reasonable price . . . the molds are standing.

- The finish part from the mold would fit all older Newells. If for one reason you've got to widen or
shrink, makes no difference slash the part in 2 or 4 and reassemble, in no time the job is done and
all inclusive.

- Light assemblies having the same part numbers as the 2000 series.

- If a Newell has its face smash it's usually the bottom part, they don't change the complete front
cap ! Newell has certainly parts or parts in their catalogue.

- One way or the other, you still have to 'Paint.' I would rather paint a complete new surface and
blend (if fairly new paint) or have a type of ornamental painted line between the old and new paint.
»»»»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««~»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' ««««««««««««
- That's it, this job is completed !
- - - "Here's your total . . . Sir, your invoice, Sir . . . HEY MISTER ! . . HERE'S YOUR BILL ! ! ! . . ."
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:26 PM   #17
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» » » » » » » » HERE'S A '1998 NEWELL'
» » » » » » » » » » » » » » » » WITH A NEW '2005 FRONT CAP'
»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««««««~»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««««««
_
>»«< The Seller states the front cap change was done @ 'Newell Coach'.
»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««««««~»»»»»»»»» 'NewellClassic.com' «««««««««
» » » » » » » » When does an Newell Owner change a front cap ?
>»«< 1- If involve in a crash with front end damage or so (if your planning to buy a 'Newell with a new
front cap, better check where the coach came from) ;
>»«< or :
>»«< 2- If the owner wants to keep is coach for a while ;
>»«< or :
>»«< 3- When his cardiologist says : "Your 'heart can't take' all the excitement of having a 'Brand New
Newell !" (and this could also be a cheap line to reveal to your neighbors for having an older coach !) ;
>»«< or :
>»«< 4- When his bank manager (could be short for 'wife') says : "You've got '20k to play with !"
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:08 PM   #18
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While I would love to have Newell slap on a new front, my pocket book won't allow that expense at this time.

Richard have you had any luck on finding a fabricator?

I found this place down in your neck of the woods that does them http://www.xtremegraphics.net/headlight.html but haven't contacted them on pricing yet.

Michael do you have any links for the place in Yuma that you mentioned?
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:07 PM   #19
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Paul, sorry about not posting that information. I had been corresponding with Richard off board and had told him that I was mistaken about the location of the facility that does the headlight conversions. It was in fact XtremeGraphics, the same one you have located in Nachogdoches, TX near the Foretravel plant. The person that told me about the company lived in Yuma, AZ and I was thinking he had said it was local but he meant local to the Foretravel facility.

One of the coaches they have converted belongs to a contributor to another site I am involved with and he was extremely pleased with their work.
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:43 PM   #20
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Hello Michael,

No apologies needed on getting back to us, as it is, your contributions are greatly appreciated.

BTW, did your contact mention the cost?
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