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Old 09-20-2010, 05:50 PM   #21
tuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulltiming View Post
I concur with Dean. Your generator should not be running that hot so the generator radiator and fan would be the two primary suspects. I find that load makes more difference than ambient temperature on the generator's operating temperature. With only 2 air conditioners on, mine will run at about 180 degrees at 80 degrees or 100 degrees outside. When I turn on all four airs, the temp will go up.
Michael,

This past weekend when we were tailgating in Baton Rouge all four compressors were running all day. I have 2 basement SCS double compressor units. In moderate temps only 1 compressor will run, but when the temps rise the second compressor will kick in.

It was 93 degrees and humidity was about 85% this past weekend! In addition the parking space that I was in only allowed 2" of air space between the concrete and the generator oil pan!

In those conditions, what do you think your generator operating temp would be? Mine was at 225 degrees. At night, the operating temps went down to 180. Do you think that I have an overheating problem? Or was it just too hot for a gen to run under those conditions?
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:04 PM   #22
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Tuga,

Sounds like you were putting a major load on the gennie with all four AC's running, people in and out of the coach, and no cooling space. The temp and humidity you quoted puts a big load on the AC units.

The gennie slowly stumbling and stopping sounds like a fuel problem. If the overtemp sensor kicks in, it shuts the fuel solenoid off, and the engine will stop quickly.

I would replace both fuel filters as my first order of business.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:34 PM   #23
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I'll be doing that this morning Richard. I know that the ambient temps were high but I have been using the coach in this parking spot for the last 5 years, and this is the first time that the operatiing temp was this high. After I change my filters and oil this morning, I am going to test the operating temps again by letting it run for a few hours with the front end lowered all the way down to simulate the parking spot at LSU. If it overheats again (which I think it will) I will start to examine the thermostat, remove radiator and have it rodded and cleaned, & check the blower for proper air flow.

Tommy at Newell suggested reducing the air intake in the p/s bay by installing a piece of aluminum that would cover half of the vent in the door. I will try that if the above fails.

I agree with you and others that it is a fuel problem. I have ordered a new 12v fuel pump from Kohler and if that doesn't do the trick I will check the water pump next (thank you HoosierDaddy). Some of my Prevost buddies have had this issue and in all 3 cases the fuel pump was the culprit, so that is why I am attacking that first.

How is your project going with your series 60?
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:48 PM   #24
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Default Water pump...

How do I go about testing my water pump? And where is it located on the generator?

20 KW Kohler (Model # 20CC067-RV)

Thanks,
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:47 AM   #25
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Tuga, it may be the fuel filter. I have been dealing with this fungas problem for a couple of years and a couple of times mine would go into a hesitation mode and changing the filter always sloved the problem. I run mine with all three air conditioners and the electric heater on and never go over 185 degrees regardless of the outside temperature.
I think if you are starving the unit due to a bad filter it could affect the temperature.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:53 PM   #26
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Tuga,
The water pump on mine is belt driven on the front of the engine directly behind where the radiator fan would be mounted on a conventional application. The first indication of a problem will be coolant seepage around the shaft where it enters the pump body. I remove the radiator cap (before the engine heats up) start it and allow it to reach operating temp (coolant will probably "boil over" the radiator as it warms) If you monitor the temp of the upper radiator hose you can tell when the thermostat opens...it will get hot almost immediatly....I just touch it every minute or so and can feel the difference. Once the thermostat opens you will be able to look inside the radiator and see the coolant circulating. If that all checks out the pump and thermostat are probably working properly. To avoid any problems "on the road" I just replaced the pump,hoses,belts and had the radiator cleaned when I first bought my '78 because it had high hours on it. Once you have it all apart it's not hard to do.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:25 PM   #27
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Default Test Results.....

Reminder: I changed oil & all filters yesterday.

As luck would have it we had a fairly cool morning, about 79 degrees. So I had to wait to test my gen cooling system until this afternoon when the temp was around 86 degrees.

I removed the radiator cap, started the generator, turned on both ACs, both stove burners, the dryer, and unplugged the shorepower cord. I was drawing 50 amps on each leg! 100 amps total - the gen was loaded up! I watched the water in the radiator and very soon it started to move around back and forth - NOT circulating - just moving around and bubbling a little.

Next, I felt the top hose close to the thermostat; it was hot and I touched it every few minutes to see if it would get burning hot. I couldn't tell much difference thru the entire test; it seemed about the same temp everytime I touched it. So since it didn't get too hot to touch, I assume my thermostat is bad and I will change it. Newell service told me not the run the gen when the slide drawer was open for a long time, so I retracted it while I was running the test. I left the radiator cap loose on top of the radiator neck.

After 45 minutes of running with a load the operating temp was 190 degrees
After 1 hr it was 200 degrees
After 1 hr 15 minutes it held at 200 degrees. If the ambient temp was around 93 like it was this past weekend @ LSU the operating temp would have been around 210 or 220 like it was in Baton Rouge.

At this point I removed all loads and just let the generator run drawing 0 amps. 45 minutes later it was running at 180. I think we can clearly assume the higher the ambient temp the higher the operating temp (unless you have a super human generator).

Sooooo.... it looks to me that my thermostat is bad and is not opening. I changed it about 2 years ago and I will change it again. I have seen water flowing in a radiator (cap off) before and mine was NOT flowing. There was a good bit of wind from the gen blower and at first I thought the wind was moving the water. It looks to me like the water pump is working at about 50% capacity; if that's possible. Before I change the water pump I am going to have the radiator cleaned and inspected and I am going to change the hoses (keeping the old ones as spares).

The slow movement of the water could be caused by 2 things: a clogged radiator or a marginal water pump. Since it is less expensive to clean the radiator I will start with that.

I would be interested to hear others thoughts.
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:49 AM   #28
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Tuga,
I am sure that you know this but.......I always check my Thermostats by looking to see if it was Closed. Then I would Heat some Water to about the Rating of the Thermostat. I would then submerge the Thermostat and it should Open. Then I would remove it and see it Close.
Simple but effective test. I do this to all new Thermostats prior to installation.
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:37 AM   #29
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Steve you just reminded me of something my dad would do....
Place a deep pan of water on the stove with a thermometer in it.
Manually force the thermostat open just far enough to stick a heavy string through about 1 inch or so then allow the thermostat to close thus pinching the string.
suspend the thermostat in the water by the string and turn on the heat.
When the thermostat opens it drops to the bottom of the pan. At that time check the water temp!!!
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:00 PM   #30
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Steve & Hoosier,

Great idea! I checked the thermostat last night in a pot of boiling water and it opened. When I turned off the fire and added cold water it closed; so it works.

I will try your 180 degree temperature method this morning.

I removed the radiator last night and will bring it to a radiator shop to be tested and cleaned as needed this morning.

Thanks,
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:11 PM   #31
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It was my Grandfather that taught me this and yes I forgot the string.
Sometimes simple is best!
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:19 PM   #32
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Default Update on the radiator

I got a call from the radiator shop this afternoon; they found 2 leaks in the radiator. One leak was in the top tank (fixed it by soldering) and the other one was where a tube met the bottom (fixed it by soldering). Next they are going to remove the top tank and "rod" the tubes out. This will break up and flush thru all of the rust, gook, etc. that builds up inside the core. The mechanic told me after he rods it, it will be as good as new.

I think my problem is fixed; but we'll see.

John Clark w/Newell had a few suggestions: check the generator door for air leaks (this is the part of the fiberglass front cap that has NEWELL written on it). If the gasket on this door is leaking it will cause the gen to run hot. Next, check the belts for tightness. And lastly, verify the accuracy of the VDO gauges by using a non contact infared thermometer.

John also suggested that I change the fuel solenoid on the gen for my "bogging down" problem. It is an intermittent problem (is there any other kind?) He said that the fuel solenoids get weak over time. I ordered one today from Chuck Clark in parts.

It sure is nice to have a great company like Newell Coach and the members of this forum to fall back on. Ron Skeen gave me a call today and shared his thoughts. Thanks Ron.

I love my Newell!
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:28 PM   #33
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I checked the generator door on the slide out. It was leaking air profusely! That has been the cause of my overheating problems all along (for 5 years). It will be a simple fix once I get the proper gasket material from Newell. It takes a special gasket; one that has slit in it so it can fit onto a metal rib that is at the bottom of the generator compartment.

If your generator runs hot during high temps but runs cool when outside temp is under 80 - I'll bet you 8 to 1 thru a nickel in a doughnut that you need a new generator door gasket.

Since we have cool weather now, I won't need the new gasket until next summer. But, I have it on my list next time I go to Newell.
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #34
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i ran the genny all day today while driving. it got up to low 190's when all air conditioners were running. it was pretty warm out today.

tom
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:47 AM   #35
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Tom,

Would you do me a favor? Please check your generator slide door gasket for air leaks. Just run your hand around the outer perimeter of the generator slide door gasket and feel for leaks. I would just like to know how many Newells are leaking air at this point.

Forrest is going to check his and let me know.

If anyone else out there would like to participate we could see if this is a common problem.

I'll post the results to this post by editing it each time someone reports.

1. Tuga - leaks air
2. Tom - very little leaking
3. Forrest - very little leaking
4. Steve B. - very little leaking
5. Clarke - no leaks
6. Dean - no leaks
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:15 PM   #36
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Hi Tuga,

I have been following this thread with interest. I am still a little too banged up to do much outside. Could you please explain in some more details how the air flow works on our vintage generators? I only have a very basic understanding that the air is pulled in through a grill work on the curb side front bay and into a squirrel cage blower. From there I am just not sure how it gets to the radiator on the generator or where exactly the gasket is you are talking about. A picture might be nice with a written explanation. As soon as I can and understand what you want me to check I will add my input to your poll. Thanks, Russ
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:01 PM   #37
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Tuga,
I have followed your thread & will be interested in the results of the radiator rodding. I have never seen my genset temperature guage over 180 no matter how hot or number of a/cs running, but you're a little hotter & humid down south.
I performed an air leak test with the following results: I thought I could feel a little air leaking at the front cover on the upper sides & top, but very little. I used a paper towel around the areas I could feel it & it didn't move. I used a length of toilet paper & I could now see a very small amount of pulsating air leakage on the top & upper sides. No air was leaking on the lower sides. The side vents for the squirrel cage had a tremendous movement in of air.

Hope this info is helpful................
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:25 PM   #38
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Just checked mine. A little amount of leaking at the top corners and bottom corners. Looking at the gasket it looks in good shape, but it is one continuous piece. It turns 90 degrees at the top corners. I may add a small piece at the corners to see if that stops the leaking but I haven't had any problems with overheating.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Hi Tuga,

I have been following this thread with interest. I am still a little too banged up to do much outside. Could you please explain in some more details how the air flow works on our vintage generators? I only have a very basic understanding that the air is pulled in through a grill work on the curb side front bay and into a squirrel cage blower. From there I am just not sure how it gets to the radiator on the generator or where exactly the gasket is you are talking about. A picture might be nice with a written explanation. As soon as I can and understand what you want me to check I will add my input to your poll. Thanks, Russ
Russ,

It is a very simple concept: the blower sucks air in to the squirrell cage and pushes it into the generator compartment. The cool air pushes the hot air out of the compartment via a duct directly under the generator. If air escapes out thru the front of the generator compartment door the generator will run hot because all of the hot air is not being exhausted out of the bottom.

The gasket is visible when you open the generator door (slide out). It is glued to the outer perimeter of the opening and the generator door mashes up against it when the generator door is closed.

While your generator is running, pass your hand around the edge of the fiberglass door (has Newell written on it) and determine if you feel any air escaping. When I walk past mine it will blow my hair (the little I have left). That's how badly my gasket needs changing!

Sorry I don't have any pictures.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:45 PM   #40
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Tuga,
Thanks - Is all this air that goes in somehow forced through the radiator before it all ( hopefully ) leaves through the duct work at the bottom?
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