problem on trip home with new to us - 87 - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-29-2009, 04:31 AM   #1
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Question problem on trip home with new to us - 87

I picked up our Newell at Benson AZ and spent 4 days on the road to Calgary, Alberta. It is the 87, 40' with tag which has been advertised here since mid August. I'll describe the situation and hope that some of you may be able to give me a heads up on a speedy solution.

I spent 4 days on the road and when I arrived at Calgary in the evening the house batteries were very low. They are 2 - 8D Interstates approximately 8 months old. I cleaned up the connections which didn't look bad at all and plugged it in to 30 amps for a couple days. When I first noticed the batteries were down I tried to start the 12.5 Perkins generator and it cranked an 1/8 turn and died. I used the merge battery switch but got no additional power. I found out later that the 15 amp slow blow fuse on the control box had blown (due to low power) and I replaced it. Problem is the generator will still not do more than click when I hit the starter. The house batteries indicate at 13v. but no go. The generator had started and run very nicely numerous times in the previous few days.
One other strange thing occurred on the second night on the road. The head lights started flashing randomly (very scary) and when I got off the road and turned on the hazard lights the high beams were flashing in time with the hazards. When I switched to dim headlights the whole episode ended and has not repeated itself. Well thats the story of my problems. I will be ever grateful for any thoughts or ideas you folks my have.
Thanks a lot, Bill
__________________

Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 11:32 AM   #2
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

Congratulations on joining the Newell family Bill. Several electrical issues may be conspiring against you. The batteries running down could be a failure of the merge solenoid not allowing the engines alternator to recharge the house batteries or a bad ground or a bad battery dragging the others down or even a battery switch turned off. The generator, at least on mine, starts off of the house batteries so if they are not charging then no go on starting the genset. Check to insure the battery charger is plugged in and working. You should have over 13 volts when it is charging. I would start by removing the batteries, charge them up individually and have them load tested to see if there is a bad battery in the system. Then I would replace the merge solenoid. It requires a constant duty solenoid. Don't put a starter solenoid in since it will burn out very quickly. It is likely in the electrical panel in the rear of the coach.

The headlights are on circuit breakers that will shut down the lights if a short exists, then after a few seconds will reset. This would cause the flashing you were experiencing. It will require some trouble shooting to track down the short or excess current draw from the circuit breaker (typically located in the panel in front of the passenger seat) to the headlights. Could be a frayed wire grounding out somewhere.
__________________

__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 02:33 PM   #3
prairieschooner
Senior Member
 
prairieschooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
Default

Bill,
It looks like you had the house batteries charged when the starter for the generator wouldn't crank. The "click" could mean low voltage or possibly a stuck bendix on the starter. I would put a volt meter on the starter itself, + at the post where the + battery cable attaches and - at the case or if possible the - or ground battery cable attaches. This will give you a look at the real voltage at the starter but will require two people. If the voltage is ok at the termnals and still only a "click" then it may be in the solenoid circuit.
As Michael stated the problem could be as simple as a loose ground because there were other symptoms. When trouble shooting this type of problem I always check the voltage at the beginning of the circuit (batteries) then at the end of the circuit (starter), then cut the circuit in half (battery switch) to know what part of the circuit is problematic.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
prairieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 03:14 PM   #4
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default Thank you Michael and Steve

for the great advice. Your diagnostic skills are incredible and you fellow are terrific to extend all this help.
I'll get out to the storage yard today and get on it. I've got a few things to achieve before it gets too cold which could happen pretty well anytime now. Hope to get this generator /charging / lights thing taken care of right away. I keep you posted on my progress.
I Will have an insurance inspection and general mechanical going over done on the coach this week I hope. Will have to be ready to pull the trigger on winterizing the plumbing system and want to have 2 solar panels installed before cold weather sets in. Any thoughts anyone has on any of these topics I will be extremely grateful for as well.
Thank you so much, Bill
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 03:25 PM   #5
prairieschooner
Senior Member
 
prairieschooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
Default

Bill,
Look at Blue Sky Solar Boost 200E for your Solar Regulation;
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/prod...r_boost_2000e/
This Regualtor can actually boost the output of the solar panels and with the cost of solar panels and the limited space available for installation this is a big advantage. We have noticed a difference but a side benifit is an acurate digital volt meter for the house bank.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
prairieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 04:23 AM   #6
Richard and Rhonda
Senior Member
 
Richard and Rhonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
Default

You might want to check just a few other basic assumptions. Put a voltmeter on the house batteries to see what they are. Now plug in your charger. Did the voltage actually go up? That confirms the charger is working.

After a couple of hours unplug charger and check voltage again. Is it higher than original, if so good. If not you may have a bad battery.

If the voltage did increase, does it stay steady for a couple of hours with the charger off? If not, look again for a bad cell in a battery.

You got great advice from all. I think that I have learned when diagnosing electrical problems, especially for the first time, to assume NOTHING. It's easy to step through the system and confirm what is working and not working, before you throw parts at it.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
Richard and Rhonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 07:12 PM   #7
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

Hi gang, thanks again for all the great advice and information.
Just a quick update. I'm making progress but still have several balls in the air.
Two Sharp 130W solar panels have been installed along with the Blue Sky 2000e, thanks for that great tip Steve. I've had the coach batteries out and topped them up with about 3 quarts each, cleaned the connections again and confirmed the converter/charger is charging. I've replaced the constant service (thanks for that tip) solenoid in the battery merge circuit but still haven't confirmed that it's functioning as designed. I'm unclear on the operation of the 3 position switch to charge both coach and engine batteries when the ignition is on. One archive post says all batteries charge whenever the ignition is on with the merge switch is in the middle position and another seems to say it needs to be in up or down position (I'll need to re-read those posts). I can't seem to merge engine battery power to the house circuit in order increase power to turn over the generator. I have found and replaced the 15amp slow blow fuse on the generator control box. You fellows have given me all the diagnostic tips necessary to clear up these issues and I'm still working on that and hope to have them solved soon.

A nephew in the the aircraft maintenance business has volunteered to solve the rivet problem.

I'll need to get on the winterizing pretty quick as our temperatures have been very close to freezing over night and we've actually had snow today.

Still trying to understand how the Trace Engineering 2000 Inverter (under the bed) fits into the picture as it doesn't seem to deliver power anywhere - but the Inverter switches both create a click in the 110 panel area.

Well back to the fun.
Bill
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 07:37 PM   #8
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default call me and i will try to talk you through

the merge switch and the clicking in the 110 panel when you flip the inverter switch.

i will be avail for the next 3.5 hours.

i will private message you my phone number

tom
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2009, 03:32 PM   #9
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

Bill, hopefully you and Tom have had an opportunity to talk. Tom is very good at walking though electrical issues (as well as mechanical issues). Adding 3 quarts of water to each battery should make a difference after they have a chance to recharge again. That is a lot of loss of electrolyte and would significantly reduce the storage capacity of the batteries.

Let us know if you have any questions and keep us up to date on your progress.
__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 03:36 AM   #10
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

Hello again Newell friends, I've been working my way through some of the issues you've all helped me with. I've rebuilt the starter on the 4cyl Perkins and it is working great. The coach has been through an extensive safely inspection without any faults to be corrected and a complete front to back mechanical inspection by the Detroit dealer. All wear items checked and maintenance found to be completely in good order. The oil was good but I changed it to have a fresh start. All filters were changed.

I have yet to get into the inverter story but its getting closer to the top of the list.

I am starting to understand the supply air system and have leaks to deal with. I had to disconnect the slide ram on the generator as it would not close. I finally tapped the ram with a hammer and it slowly jerked to retraction. Can anyone explain the operation of the 2 brass valves (with the screw in the bottom) located in ends of the bottom of the slide operator valves.

I'ts been the coldest October ever recorded in this area and it sure has slowed me down. Looks like a bit of a warmer break now and I hope to get a lot of odds and ends out of the way.

One more thing has occurred. After being parked for a few days I lost enough coolant (leaking hose clamps in several areas) to cause the "engine check" yellow light and "stop engine" red light to come on as soon as the motor started. The motor ran for about 30 seconds and shut itself down. As soon as I topped up the coolant it ran fine. I have gone around all the connections I can find and believe I stopped the leaks.

Thats the story for now.
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 03:59 AM   #11
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default

another place you can lose coolant is the many hoses that run for the different heaters. the one in the water bay, the hot water heater, the front heater core, the one under the bed.

on most of the coaches, they all meet in the bay in front of the water bay in the top of the bay. they all go through there and have "Y"'s there. there are hose clamps on all of the "Y"'s. i did find some of mine seeping, but none losing enough to do what you are saying. to get to the low point the sensor picks up on the top of the radiator will take several gallons. that is a lot of leaking. follow all the heater hoses around, we found a leak on michaels under the engine where the hoses left the engine area.

you are making great progress. you are having cold and we are just getting blow the 90's here....

later

tom
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 04:39 AM   #12
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

We sure envy your climate this time of year Tom. When the low coolant sensor kicked in the coach was sitting on a side slope with the passenger side higher that drivers side. I'll be on those hose suggestions tomorrow. Step at a time.
Bill
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 04:56 AM   #13
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default

on mine, the sensor for the low coolant is on the passenger side towards the engine on the radiator towards the top.

tom
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 05:10 AM   #14
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default

here is a picture of the hoses and the "Y"'s in the bay

tom
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4175.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	496  
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 11:53 AM   #15
prairieschooner
Senior Member
 
prairieschooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
Default

Bill,
Could you post a picture of the Air Cylinder? I have seen many Cylinders with Flow Control Valves (Metering) on the Ends of the Air Cylinder. These would Control how Fast the Cylinder Extends/Retracts. If the Cylinder hasn't operated for a while then it could be clogged at any Flow Control Valves or even the Piston Seals.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
prairieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 03:28 PM   #16
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

Steve, I'm not sure I've uploaded the images correctly. They were taken with my phone and are barely legible. I'll take a camera with me when i'm there today. One pic is the valve to operate slide and brass cylinder in my hand is from one end.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0016.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	97.5 KB
ID:	497   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0013.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	498  
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 05:41 AM   #17
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

Steve, I was side lined for a few days but have spent a bit of time on the generator air cylinder. I squirted air tool oil into the air inlets and got the cylinder to function with persuasion in a jerky fashion. I operated it many times and still didn't achieve smooth operation. I will continue to work it on the weekend and see what develops.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SANY0046.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	96.9 KB
ID:	508  
Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 06:02 PM   #18
prairieschooner
Senior Member
 
prairieschooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
Default

Bill,
This does sound like the Air Cylinder was Dry. When the Air is Compressed Water is Squeezed out and the Air becomes Dry. Sometimes the Piston Seals for the Air Cylinder get Clogged with Junk and can be lubed or cleaned to get it working smoothly. It does seem like you are going in the right direction and should get the Cylinder to work smoother. If the Cylinder does not get better then you will most likely need to take it apart and see if the Cylinder or the Piston shows Galling.
Good Luck, I could not tell from the pictures,
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
prairieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 10:04 PM   #19
Richard and Rhonda
Senior Member
 
Richard and Rhonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
Default

Bill,

the device that you posted actually is an exhaust restriction that fits on the exhaust port of the manifold valve. Moving the screw in slows the action of the cylinder down because it is a double acting cylinder. If you completely remove them, you could get a jolt when the cylinder hits the end of its travel at full speed. You can back out the screws a bit and get faster cylinder movement.

I will say that my cylinder will NOT move the generator unless the air pressure is all the way up at 120 psi. If the coach is just running on the aux compressor which shuts off around 90, the generator will not move. You didn't say how much air pressure you had.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
Richard and Rhonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 01:38 AM   #20
Bill & Sonja
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
Default

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I have been exercising the ram with only the 110 compressor at a max of 90 lbs so thats likely contributing to the slow jerky action. I will have time to work it some more on the weekend and will tinker with the exhaust restriction screws as well now that I'm starting to understand them.
__________________

Bill & Sonja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Newell Coach Corporation or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×