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11-30-2007, 02:15 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mansfield, MO
Posts: 22
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air leaks
How long can one reasonably expect the coach operating air pressure to hold after shutting down the engine and not using anything air operated? I'm not physically able to crawl around under the coach to investigate the system, so I guess if I have leaks the obvious remedy is a trip to Newell. Has anyone ever had air system work done at a truck stop? Do the big rigs use the same type of solenoids?
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Capt Bry
89 Newell 40 #195
8V92TA ddec II, HT740
04 HD Sportster 1200
04 Hyundai Santa Fe dingy
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11-30-2007, 02:31 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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i do not believe the solenoids are going to be found any where but special order. the challenge is there are a number of sizes and orfice sizes and they are made currently by hwh, an rv leveling system provider. once i got the right size i checked locally in Mesa, AZ, where there are a zillion RV shops and no one stocked it. The one shop i found that could order it, the price was higher than buying from newell or hwh. later today, i can go get the spare i have and put up the specs and part number on it for you. you should have the same one i would suspect, but you can verify by calling newell parts. as for how long it will stay up without being plugged in, i am not sure since i always keep mine plugged in and when boondocking i run the generator. i seem to remember someone told me that it goes down fairly quickly without one of the two compressors running on demand. while plugged in, my compressor comes on occassionally, but i honestly have not kept track of how often. someone who lives in theirs like Michael will have a much better feel for that.
changing the solenoids up front dont requre much crawling underneath as they are right at the bumper on mine.
tom
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11-30-2007, 03:14 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mansfield, MO
Posts: 22
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solenoids
Thanks Tom for the input and again for the specs. The more I think on it the stronger I feel a trip to Newell is in order. They're only about 2 1/2 hrs away and I could have them check the entire air system and fix any glitches. I'd still like to carry at least one spare solenoid. I feel I could swap out any of the ones in the eng compartment if the need arose but not the ones in front.
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Capt Bry
89 Newell 40 #195
8V92TA ddec II, HT740
04 HD Sportster 1200
04 Hyundai Santa Fe dingy
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12-01-2007, 05:28 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Bry, if you haven't been to the factory, you will find it an extremely pleasurable experience. I take my coach in each year for its annual maintenance and to fix and nagging issues I haven't repaired myself.
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01-14-2008, 02:35 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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hi, i would like to ask the same question. how long should the air system hold air without the compressors on? for me, i do most of my newelling in the driveway so it is plugged in. i used it this weekend and in 18 hours the air system went from 120psi to 25psi. i must have some leaks somewhere. that is now on my list to troubleshoot. let me know how long you'alls stay up with out a compressor running as a benchmark.
tom
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01-14-2008, 03:54 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 326
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Tom, it was great to visit with you yesterday.
I am curently living in my coach and using the air operated toilet and step slide cover and my system is going approximately 2 times in 24 hours. When visiting I mentioned that I changed all of my air switches, check valves and preasure control valves in the entire coarc. I also changed out two of my air tanks that had leaks in the welds from rust. I also changed out my air operated windshield wiper motors and air switches.
Air leaks are to find so I just changed out everything I could find.
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01-14-2008, 04:12 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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thanks wally, stop by anytime.
yea, your visit prompted me to pay more attention to how long the air lasts and especially since i took it out yesterday. i will put it on my list to do as much air leak searching as i can. have to stock up on windex, my leak tester of choice.
i did some web inquires about engine compartment soundproofing and heatproofing. do you remember what temperature the insulation you got from newell was rated to? do any of you know how hot it gets in the engne compartment? does it get hotter than 225 degrees? i should have taken my heat meter out to check last nite, but i didnt think about it.
tom
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01-14-2008, 09:52 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 326
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Tom, be careful when working the air system. When replacing check valves, air switches, etc., make sure you have something other than you air bags supporting the coach. You can disconect the wrong line and have the coach drop down on you very quick. Sorry, I don't know what the compartment temp is in the engine area.
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01-14-2008, 10:17 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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yea, i bought a couple of 20 ton bottle jacks. i dont want to become smaller by compression. i found a source for insulation for the engine compartment. did your new one from newell have the thin layer of rubber in between two pieces of foam like the old one?
thanks
tom
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10-04-2009, 04:26 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Muskogee, OK USA
Posts: 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encantotom
yea, i bought a couple of 20 ton bottle jacks. i dont want to become smaller by compression. i found a source for insulation for the engine compartment. did your new one from newell have the thin layer of rubber in between two pieces of foam like the old one?
thanks
tom
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Tom
Do you still happen to have a source for insulation for the engine compartment? And would you care to share it? :-)
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Jeff and Pam
1996 Newell 45'/Tag
60 Series Detroit
Coach #432
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10-04-2009, 03:55 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Tom, as to your question of how long the Supply air stays up, there are so many variables that I don't think that there is a good answer. My coach has a several additional air operated items than yours and Richard's coach has several that mine does not have so each gives more opportunities to leak down. That said, the best mine has done is dropping from 95 psi to 75 psi (the cycle range of my 120 volt air compressor) in 12 hours. The worst was 14 minutes. Newell found a cracked ride height valve that was causing the 14 minute leak down. I probably average about 2-4 hours for a 20 psi leak down. I know I still have one fitting leaking going into my lumbar bladder control on my air seat. Hopefully after repairing that, I will be back to 3-5 hours. Newell considers that anything over 45 minutes on the air supply for a 20 psi leak down is not worth tracking down but I am certain that Wally disagrees with that. The brake system, of course, should stay up for days or even weeks.
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10-04-2009, 05:08 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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response for insulation for engine compartment
the original stuff that newell used is 1" thick and has foil, a lead type layer and then foam. it is self adhesive and VERY expensive. several here have bought it and replaced the insulation in the engine compartment and other areas.
you can buy it from newell, but it would cost you 2-300 dollars to do the engine compartment. another issue for me is that there is very little room in my engine compartment and putting something up that sticks immediately and permanently to anything it touches would have required more skill than i have to apply. i know wally has done it and did a great job.
so in my normal approach, i went for something that has similar characteristics and was cheaper.
there is a company near my work that specializes in recycled bluejeans for insulation.
they make a product for engine compartments. i talked to their tech department and the specs were close enough for me. that is the bonded logic link below. i used their sticky stuff contact adhesive and 3M auto contact adhesive to glue the two non foil surfaces together in doubling it up. then for the engine compartment, i used fender washers and 1 1/2" screws to screw it up to the top of the engine compartment. i removed the old stuff that was starting to fall apart and then put the new stuff everywhere i could.
i also did it under the bed around the top of the engine compartment.
where the seams were, i used re-enforced HVAC foil tape i bought at a hvac shop, home depot sells it too.
i also redid the blower compartment and where my air compressor is. there i used the contact adhesive to glue it in since it was a metal wall. where it goes in the engine compartment was all wood in mine. so the screws worked fine.
jcwhitney has sales all the time to get discounts on shipping or product, so subscribe to their site.
so for about 2 bucks a square foot (doubled up) i did all i wanted.
is it as good as the newell stuff.....maybe, maybe not. but it is at least 1/3 to 1/5th the price.
make sure this is what you are comfortable with as it is only what i did. most have bought the original stuff to redo it with.
i included the links to the material i used and for the one at dupree which i didnt. it is good stuff, just more expensive than what i wanted.
i also put a few pictures of my finished work.
tom
http://www.bondedlogic.com/insulator.htm the one i used
http://www.dupreeproducts.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=6 the more expensive one
http://www.jcwhitney.com/Heat/Sound_...DetailTabPanel
this last link above is where i bought it. it is the bonded logic product.
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10-04-2009, 07:30 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Muskogee, OK USA
Posts: 208
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Tom
Thanks for all the information. That will give us a place to start looking. Yes I had called Newell and it was almost $300. for 1 sheet. So checking into other options.
Nice work on the compartments! Looks really good.
Pam
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Jeff and Pam
1996 Newell 45'/Tag
60 Series Detroit
Coach #432
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10-05-2009, 03:19 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 194
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Would you believe this???
Quote:
Originally Posted by encantotom
hi, i would like to ask the same question. how long should the air system hold air without the compressors on? for me, i do most of my newelling in the driveway so it is plugged in. i used it this weekend and in 18 hours the air system went from 120psi to 25psi. i must have some leaks somewhere. that is now on my list to troubleshoot. let me know how long you'alls stay up with out a compressor running as a benchmark.
tom
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Tom.. I know its is hard to believe but after two days I still have 85lbs.
Not sure why... looking at the air bags..
Jimmy
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Jimmy
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10-05-2009, 01:33 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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I can explain this, maybe. :-)
When you level the coach, the leveling system is supposed to isolate the ride height valves. IF the solenoid valves that provide the isolation lea by, then remember the ride height valves are trying to undo the leveling you just did and restore ride height.. So if you have raised one end the ride height valve is dumping the air to the atmosphere. Hope that made sense
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Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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