'82 Air Ride trouble - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-17-2009, 03:12 PM   #1
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default '82 Air Ride trouble

After this deal is made, I need to repair the Air Ride Suspension. The Manual is not complete making any repairs a bit more of a challenge. I walked away from the Coach a few months back but here is what I remember about the system with some questions;
It is an older System with the Toggle Switches mounted at the front and just to the left of the Driver's Seat.
The Traveling portion is not functional. After reading previous posts on this subject, it sounds like it should be a Solenoid or Voltage issue. Would this Solenoid or Solenoids be located at the Engine Bay or Under the Coach? What Air Pressure should the System be Set at?
Does someone know of a link to generic Electrical and Pneumatic Schematics for these older Systems. If I had Schematics, it would surely make this repair easier although if was easy anyone could do it.
As a note, when the Coach is stationary, the Leveling System appears to work fine and hold Air for extended periods. The old owner used this stationary System to move the Coach at least to get it home when he became ill. I do not plan on moving the Coach until I get this problem corrected.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Steve
__________________

prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 04:00 PM   #2
tuga
Senior Member
 
tuga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 886
Default

Steve,

I would suggest that you call Newell service 1-888-9NEWELL Monday - Thursday. They will be able to better answer your questions or at least suggest a place to start.

Good Luck and best wishes.
__________________

__________________
Tuga & Karen Gaidry
1999 Newell 45 w/2 slides
Coach #512
2005 Pilot
tuga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 05:00 PM   #3
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default

i have what i think is the same system you are referring to. my system is totally manual with toggle switches on the dash for up and down for each of the 4 corners. it works great, but i did have to replace a few of the solenoids.

i do not have a tag axle and the solenoids are 6 under the front drivers side bumper, easily seen and accessed from just laying on the ground. the other 6 are on the firewall towards the front of the passenger side engine compartment.

i do have some sketches i will find on what valve is what. the travel valves are for the front on the front axle in the middle of the coach. the rear one is behind the tires on the drivers side on the outside of the frame.

michael is an expert on how to adjust them.

compared to the automatic hwh leveling systems, ours is very easy to troubleshoot and fix. i would love to have the automatic one, but i am very happy with mine as well. takes me just a few minutes to level when i stop.

tom
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 06:42 PM   #4
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

Steve, as Tom indicated, the manual system that you have is not particularly complex. Since the system is working in the 'level' mode, we just need to focus on the 'travel' mode. Travel mode is controlled by the three ride height valves that Tom described. There are two travel mode solenoids (pressurize and dump) in the front (typically behind the driver's side headlights) and two travel mode solenoids (pressurize and dump) for the rear and, IF APPLICABLE, two more for the tag axle (typically in the engine bay on the passenger's side on the wall closest to the front).

I would troubleshoot the system by first raising the coach in level mode all the way at all four corners (you will need the engine running on high idle). I prefer to level by using two switches at a time, either the rear two, the front two, the right two or the left two. That will avoid putting additional stress on the chassis. When the coach is up all the way, then switch to travel mode and see if the coach begins to drop back down to an appropriate travel height that is level with the ground on all four corners. If so, your travel mode dump solenoids are working properly. If not, you may have an inoperative solenoid or a bad ride height valve. Now, put the controls back in level mode and drop just the front. Switch back to travel mode, engine running on high idle, and see if the front comes back up to the correct travel level. If it will not raise at all, you most likely have a bad travel raise solenoid in front although a bad front ride height valve could be responsible.

Of course there could be no voltage going from the switch to the solenoids but that is MUCH more rare than a dysfunctional solenoid. If the solenoids are all working, then the one or more of the actually travel height valves are likely defective or WAY out of adjustment.

If it comes up but not the correct distance, you need to adjust the arm on the front travel height control lever located just behind the center of the front axle. Moving the horizontal arm up on the vertical arm will raise the front of the coach and moving it down will lower the front of the coach. DO NOT MAKE THESE ADJUSTMENTS WITHOUT PUTTING CRIBBING UNDER THE COACH AND PUTTING THE LEVELING SYSTEM BACK IN LEVEL MODE. Getting crushed under the coach as it starts lowering will ruin your entire day.

If the front is returning to level mode properly, then you repeat the procedure on the rear. If after being raised in level mode then being switched to travel mode, both only one side drops then you know which rear travel dump solenoid is bad. If they both drop but one side will not come up, then you know you have either a bad travel up solenoid on that side OR the travel height adjust is messed up on the low side. These are adjusted by moving the horizontal level up or down on the vertical shaft. The right travel height valve is inside of the right rear dually and the left travel height valve is inside of the left rear dually.

If I have confused you, let me know and I will try again. Let us know what you find.

The system pressure to the suspension is typically not adjustable and reads on the gauge in the engine compartment. It should be around 100-110 psi. On coaches with a tag, there is a pressure adjustment and gauge, again in the engine compartment near the solenoids and it should typically be around 25 psi. On coaches with an air shifter for the transmission, there will be still another pressure gauge and adjustment valve and according to Newell it should be set around 60 psi although a tech for the air shifter company told me that he typically sets them at 100 psi.
__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 10:33 PM   #5
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

Thanks Guys,
We are discussing a 1982 38' without a tag axle. If I understood it correctly;
There is a Solenoid that Pressurizes the Front System and a Second Solenoid that pressurizes the Rear System. The Front has one Ride Height Valve at the middle of the Axle. The Rear has a Right and a Left Ride Height Valve, located on the Right and Left side of the Axle. The Ride Height Valves are adjustable but I need to be cautious and use Blocking before I try adjusting.
If I am correct so far then there is a Dump Valve for the Front System and a second Dump Valve for the Rear System.
Steve
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 11:15 PM   #6
encantotom
Senior Member
 
encantotom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
Default

right except their is an up solenoid and a down solenoid for both the front and rear travel valves.

so for a coach with no tag, like mine, there are 6 solenoids in the front and 6 solenoids in the rear.

tom
__________________
2002 45'8" Coach
2008 Honda CRV toad

https://www.newellclassic.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8
encantotom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 12:08 AM   #7
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

Thanks Steve. Based on your comments, I have made minor revisions to the wording in my write up for others that might use it in the future to insure that others understand that the two solenoids for travel on the front and rear are to pressurize or dump the travel air from the ride height system. The ride height valves are actually two way valves that will either add air or release air based on the position of the horizontal level arm which maintains the correct distance between the body and the axle to keep the coach level with the pavement.

Tom is correct that there are a total of six solenoids per axle, two are for the ride height (pressurize and dump) and four are for leveling (one pressurize and one dump for the right side and one pressurize and one dump for the left side of the axle).
__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2009, 02:05 AM   #8
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

makes perfect sense to me, a fairly straight forward Pneumatic System.
Thanks, this will be extremely helpful on Monday, I will let you know how it goes.
Steve
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 01:07 AM   #9
Richard and Rhonda
Senior Member
 
Richard and Rhonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
Default

I am going to repeat what Tom and Michael told you, but use completely different words.

The pressure of the air in the bags raise or lowers the coach, you already know that. When you are in level mode, all of the six solenoids are closed. When you activate one of the toggle switches, it opens the appropriate solenoid. For example, to raise the right front corner, you toggle up on right front and that solenoid opens to pressurize the right front air bag. Likewise, to let air out of that bag, toggle down, and the down solenoid will open.

When we talk about the travel mode, it gets a little more complicated. In travel mode, both the up and down solenoids open, but those air lines do not go directly to the air bags. They go to the leveling valve. The leveling valve is mechanically attached to the frame and has an arm that is connected in some way to the axle. So, depending on the height of the axle relative to the frame, the leveling valve will automatically let air into or let air out of the air bags to bring it back to the correct height. Threre are three leveling valves. The one in the front controls both the right and left front air bags. There are separate leveling valves for each side of the rear. The reason for this is that by using three leveling points, it's harder to twist the frame. If you have four leveling valves and one gets out of adjustment you can twist the frame, and the first symptom is your windshield pops out.

Ok, so the first thing to do is to determine which valves are which, The fastest way to do this is to have a helper toggle each valve from the cabin. If you take a small screw driver to the valve assemblies, you will find the one that is being opened will become magnetic. Draw yourself a little diagram of which valve is which. I would also take a voltmeter with me to determine that the solenoids were getting a good 12v.

I like Michaels idea of raising the coach up using the leveling mode and then putting it in travel. If you raise it all the way up, higher than normal, then you should hear air hiss as the leveling valves let air out of the system to lower it to the correct height.

I am going to send you my cell in a PM. Call me if you get stuck with your diagnosis.

Do not try to drive the coach until you get the traveling height straightened out. You do not want the coach to sit down on the tires while you are at speed.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
Richard and Rhonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 02:22 AM   #10
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

OK Guys, I followed the Trouble Shooting suggested and here is the result;
The Leveling System worked fine when leveled and sitting overnight.
The Coach was raised (over adjusted) and put into the Traveling Mode, the Right Side became low.
I checked the Solenoids and all was well so I checked under the Coach. The Linkage Arm (adjustable) has come loose from the Travel Valve at the Right Axle. It is actually just dangling there.
I think that we will be purchasing this Coach so it will get repaired after I make the deal but there are more problems found and I need to wait for the Lab results.
Thanks for all of the help, it made it much easier,
Steve
__________________
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' Classic
DD 6V92
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:00 AM   #11
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

Two possibilities but if the bolt has come out, it will be extremely cheap and easy to fix. IF it were DISCONNECTED intentionally, then there could be a valve problem. I would bet on the first possibilities.
__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 06:46 AM   #12
fulltiming
Senior Member
 
fulltiming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
Default

After much discussion about the air suspension, Richard found a detailed manual on the HWH website that discusses the operation of the air leveling and travel mode (thanks Richard). The system is somewhat more complex in travel mode than I outlined previously. There are not separate travel mode raise and lower solenoids as there are for the air leveling. There is a single travel mode solenoid for the right side of the axle and one for the left side of the axle. As Richard points out above, when in travel mode, BOTH these solenoids stay open all the time.

In travel mode, with the travel solenoid to each side of the axle open, the travel height valve(s) control the movement of air into and out of each airbag. There is an air supply going into each travel height valve (the valves are located in the center of the front at least on mid 1990 and earlier coaches, and one at the right drive axle and one at the left drive axle). When the travel height valve senses that the coach is low, the valve opens and sends air through the travel solenoid valve(s) and into the air bags. If the travel height valve senses the coach is high, it starts exhausting air thus allowing air to flow out of the air bags, through the travel solenoids and out the travel height valve exhaust.

As soon as you switch to level mode, the travel solenoids close, isolating the travel height valves from the air bags and allowing the raise and lower solenoids for each side of each axle to control the level height. If you or the automatic system, if applicable, determine one side is high, the lower solenoids for that side open which vents air out of the air bags to lower it. If it can't be lowered enough to bring the coach into level, the opposite side is then raised by opening the raise solenoids which allows supply air to be transferred into the air bags thus raising that side.

There were a several interesting statements in the manual.
1) Running the engine while leveling will provide a better air supply for vehicle leveling.
2) Never dump air before leveling, always level starting at travel height.
3) Always begin leveling side to side, making sure the the coach is level side to side before beginning the front to rear leveling.
4) Always drop the high side first, the raise the low side if required.
5) If it is necessary to raise the low side to get the coach level side to side, then use the RAISE buttons when leveling the vehicle front to rear. Trying to lower the ends of the vehicle when one side is completely lowered may twist the frame.

I have noticed that in automatic level mode on my coach, recommendation 5 is not always followed by the system. Even if a side is dropped completely, the HWH system stills tries to lower the high end before raising the low end.

I will repeat for those who have the Newell toggle switch for each corner of the coach rather than the HWH keypad, the two switches for each side or each end of the coach should be operated together. That minimizes twisting affects on the coach from the air bags.
__________________
Michael and Georgia Day
1992 Newell 43.5' #281
8V92 DDEC-2, HT740
PT Cruiser GT with Remco Transmission Pump
https://newellowner.com/newell-photos/
fulltiming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 05:45 PM   #13
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

Thanks, I glanced at the Manual and then printed a copy. I will be going out to Yuma on Friday (2/6/2009) to try and get the Leveling operational.
Thanks again for all of the help guys, this Forum sure is a valuable source of information.
Steve
__________________
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' Classic
DD 6V92
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 07:02 PM   #14
2dogs
Member
 
2dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
Default

Steve, sounds like we have the same system, would be happy to lend a hand. just let me know. (208)255-8734 Brian
__________________
87 Newell Tag 40'-8v92TA-HT740 #139
2dogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 10:48 PM   #15
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

Brian,
Our plans are to be in Yuma next week. I'll give you a call when I know more of what to expect.
Thanks,
__________________
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' Classic
DD 6V92
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2009, 04:16 AM   #16
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

Thanks for your help guys,
The problem was with the Ride Height Valve that is located under the coach at the right rear axle. There is a linkage that connects to the valve and the axle that allows for the adjustment, this linkage was distorted and the rubber bushing was deteriorated. I was able to do some Blacksmithing and with the previous advice I was able fabricate the Bushing from a piece of hose and tightening the linkage to secure it.
All well with the Leveling and the Air Ride, I even took the Newell for a short jaunt this afternoon. I have another issue with the Gage but I will post those issues at the other forum after getting a better look at the Coach.
__________________
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' Classic
DD 6V92
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2009, 03:10 PM   #17
chockwald
Senior Member
 
chockwald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 1,543
Default

Steve, great news on the ride height valve linkage repair. Which gauge are you having issues with?
__________________
Clarke and Elaine Hockwald - FULLTIMING!
https://whatnewell.blogspot.com
1982 Newell 36’ DD 6V92 TA
2002 Thunderbird Retro
Cannondale Tandem
Cannondale Bad Boy
Cannondale F600
2 Terra Trike Tadpoles
Intense 5.5 mountain bike
ALBUM: https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=213
chockwald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2009, 01:34 PM   #18
prarieschooner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 120
Default

Clarke,
The Volt Meter at the Dash is not working. I am going to post a question at the Electrical Forum.
When we got back to the Cabin something was wrong with the Heater and it began to put Carbon Monoxide into the Cabin, the CO Alarm went off. We had to open it up and ventilate (15 degrees outside) and the Patti stayed up and kept the wood stove stoked so that I could sleep and work the next day.
We decided to just come and get the Coach. Most of the Systems are back up now and the new tires go on today. Our plans are to move the Coach to Hemet next week and find some place to saty until I can repair or replace the Heater at the Cabin. There was 2 1/2 foot of snow when we left Idyllwild and more coming down when we left. I called one of my nieghbors and was told that you cannot get down our road (it is an unmaintained private road).
__________________
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' Classic
DD 6V92
prarieschooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 12:33 AM   #19
Richard and Rhonda
Senior Member
 
Richard and Rhonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
Default

Steve,

Tom is the furnace man, get in touch with him. Glad you had the CO alarms.
__________________

__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
Richard and Rhonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Newell Coach Corporation or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×