Series 60 Engine Problem, Major, I think

[prairieschooner]

Good find Richard, this could be a very hard problem to find especially if the liner would have to heat up to find the crack! Since this is the only one showing the pitting, this may be the only one with a problem.
Hoosier Daddy's link does state a potential issue with hard water, best to use distilled with the proper and a good quality Antifreeze.
I do agree with "burping" the system but after looking at the Thermostats I can understand why they don't feel that it is needed. Usually I will fill the Radiator and then recheck it the next day if I have the time, this usually helps to get the system filled. And always start up the engine, allow it to heat up to operating temp, then shut it down and allow it to cool before checking it again.
As a side note on most smaller Diesels they have an air bleed fitting at the thermostat housing.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Steve,

The 60 does have an air bleed on top of the water pump, which also contains the tstats.

The coolant temp plugs at the back of the head are higher up in the system. I am going to burp there.

One of the tips I got from the bus site was excellent. Clean up the part, smear it with old used oil or blueing, and wipe it clean again. The stain will highlight the crack. I don't know why I didn't think of that. In another life I worked as a maintenance engineer at a Nuke plant. That's the way we checked welds. It's called dye penetrant testing. The first dye was hot pink, then you sprayed a white coating over that. If there was a hole or crack, the hot pink would bleed through the white.

[encantotom]

hi richard. great find. as you know, none of the real over the road mechanics will change everything when they find one thing wrong. wayyyy too much money has been spent on detroit engines by well meaning RV'rs who think they have to change it all when the fix is obvious. any honest truck shop will fix only whats wrong. these engines were built to do that. not shotgun repair.

good luck

tom

[prairieschooner]

Me too Richard. I used to use the same product I can't find it on the web but I can still remember the smell. Still, though I think your method was much more dependable, you wouldn't use that to check the Head Gasket or Liner Seals.
I'll have to get Tricia start keeping corks from her wine but wait would 2 buck chuck corks work?

[Richard and Rhonda]

Yesterday was a day of improvisation. First, the liner refused to come out. I did buy the three hundred buck tool. I finally ended up using a bottle jack and a very lont 1/2 extension bar. Voila !

Well, I also didn't buy the 200 buck cylinder liner installer. Hmmm, if the bottle jack got it out, then it should get it back in. I put a block of wood on top of the liner, bottle jack on top of the wood, and a long piece of 2 inch diameter pipe underneath upper frame of the bedroom floor. Voila !

And finally, I used an old trick I learned working on Vw's. I used a big hose clamp to compress the rings to get it back in the cyl.

I did replace the rod and main bearings while I was in the bottom end. Wow, what a nasty job. I was filthy and bleeding by the end of the day. Seems that when you remove the trailer hitch it leaves two really sharp but solid pieces of iron. I tried several times to move them with my head. Ouch. I did get to use the Tuga wrench. The main caps are torqued to 350 ft lbs. Even with a five foot long wrench you still have to apply some oomph while on your back in a tight place. I'm sore this morning.

I did not see ANY evidence of cavitation on the liner. NONE. You can see from the pics that one side has been exposed to exhaust gas. It looks burned and carboned up.

Today, I hope to get the head on, and if I'm lucky get this puppy buttoned up, and clean the coach.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving all.

[folivier]

You da man!
If anyone could tackle this job, I knew it would be you.
Happy Turkey.

[HoosierDaddy]

Dittos,,,,Richard I'm impressed.........I would vote to promote you from Senior Member to Grand Master !
Wishing you'all a blessed Thanksgiving!
Dean

[chockwald]

Richard, the older we get the more blood we tend to shed, even if the repairs are easy....haha......great job! I am very impressed.

[RussWhite]

Richard,

Add me to the list of the very impressed. The size of that piston is impressive too. You have got to be one sore mechanic. I bet there won't be any extra bolts when you are done

Way to go!

[folivier]

But if you need any I have some laying around!

[Richard and Rhonda]

I had hoped to have it running today, but it was not meant to be. Things always take longer than I think they should.

The head is on, and torqued. I won't need to go to the gym today. 38 bolts, 220 ft lbs, done twice, and then once more cause I'm anal.

Injectors in, camshaft in. Intake manifold on, exhaust manifold on, turbo on.

Alas, it will have to wait for another weekend, and decent weather.

I need to finish the air plumbing, install the rockers and check the valve lash, and install the jakes. Fill it with oil and coolant, and cross my fingers that they don't mix this time.

[Richard and Rhonda]

I need some help from one of you has a S60. There is an exhaust shield that is mounted on the exhaust manifold. It can fit either at the back of the engine (toward the coach) or at the front (towards the rear of the bus) Yeah, I know, confusing about what is front and back.

I think it is at the back, but I am not sure.

[davidmbrady]

Hi Richard,

Great job!

The exhaust shield fits on cylinders five and six.

BTW, was it difficult getting the new liner set to the proper deck height, -.0005 to .003"? Did you shim it?

[Richard and Rhonda]

David,

This is the one shortcut that might live to bite me. The liner height was .005. However, I did not have a way to compress it and measure at the same time. The boys at the shop where I bought the parts said no biggie. We will see. The other liners were .002 to .003, so I was within the .002 cyl to cyl spec. It should compress just a little when the head is torqued down. It was an educated gamble, it may or may not have been a good one.

The liner seat was pristine around its' circumfrence. I looked at it at 10x and found not a trace of anything.

[prairieschooner]

Richard,
I would suggest that you re-torque the Head just after the Engine Warms up to Temp and before you put a load on it. If the Liner needs to be seated this should definitely help.

[Richard and Rhonda]

This is the project that knows no end. I last had the opportunity and the weather at Thanksgiving, but as I reported then, I had some misgivings about the height of the liner I just put in. For the better part of two weeks, I have debated the pros and cons of going backwards and checking the liner height after the head has been torqued, or just finish bolting it up, and drive it till something happens. Back and forth, back and forth. I vcould write a treatise on the analysis I have done on the best course of action.

I spent all day today taking the manifolds and valve train back off and pulling the head. The new liner was .0005 proud of the deck. Just like the other five. At the bottom end of the spec, but I'll take it. I didn't take any chances, I did use a brand new head gasket even though the other one had not seen one cylinder fire.

So I just spent the day practicing to be a diesel mechanic. Oh well. Now, I know, I won't roll down the highway with the nagging thought that something I knowingly did will result in a trip on the hook.

Status - same place I was two weeks ago. It's supposed to snow tomorrow, but most of what I have to do is inside so let it snow........

[rheavn]

I've been following your thread with anticipation & admiration of someone taking on such a big job. I'm hoping to read of a successful start up soon.

[folivier]

Hey Richard, you taking appointments yet?
Great job man, you're my hero!

[davidmbrady]

Originally Posted by Richard and Rhonda

This is the project that knows no end. I last had the opportunity and the weather at Thanksgiving, but as I reported then, I had some misgivings about the height of the liner I just put in. For the better part of two weeks, I have debated the pros and cons of going backwards and checking the liner height after the head has been torqued, or just finish bolting it up, and drive it till something happens. Back and forth, back and forth. I vcould write a treatise on the analysis I have done on the best course of action.

I spent all day today taking the manifolds and valve train back off and pulling the head. The new liner was .0005 proud of the deck. Just like the other five. At the bottom end of the spec, but I'll take it. I didn't take any chances, I did use a brand new head gasket even though the other one had not seen one cylinder fire.

So I just spent the day practicing to be a diesel mechanic. Oh well. Now, I know, I won't roll down the highway with the nagging thought that something I knowingly did will result in a trip on the hook.

Status - same place I was two weeks ago. It's supposed to snow tomorrow, but most of what I have to do is inside so let it snow........

Hi Richard,

I would have done the same! LOL Us engineers are a bird of a feather. BTW, I think the low end of the liner height spec is -0.0005. Good Luck,

Best,
David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi

[Summersgal]

Richard,

I was just wondering if you used the same head bolts too. Is it OK to torque them twice? I thought the bolts were designed to stretch and hold a certain amount of tension. Just asking, if this every happens to us, I will probably have to repair it myself also.

Jeff