Hydraulic Fan Control - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:20 AM   #1
Richard and Rhonda
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Default Hydraulic Fan Control

On a couple of recent trips I noticed the engine temp (Series 60) was running consistently at 180, and the tranny and oil temps were following very closely. That was interesting because the engine temp had been running right at 200 and the tranny at 205. Since I had recently sprayed the radiator with degreaser and rinsed it, I wrote it off to a cleaner radiator. I was getting these numbers from the VMSPc so I tended to believe them.

Then on the recent run back to Texas from SC, the tranny temp got all the way down to 150, which is too cool. Something wasn't adding up about this odd behavior. Then after one rest stop, and an engine restart the whole shebang started running at 200 again. However after the next shutdown and restart it returned to 180. Weird.


But I did notice that my fan ran all the time now, even when I first cranked the engine. That didn't seem right to me.

I learned a bunch of new stuff, maybe some of it will help you some day.

The fan is controlled through a manifold that is mounted at the lower right of the engine as you face the rear. It is easliy found since the big hydraulic hoses that go to the fan motor go right through this manifold. You will also notice there is a solenoid valve on the manifold with a a two wire electrical connection.

When the solenoid is open the fan does not run. The fail safe position for the system when the solenoid is closed OR inoperable is for the fan to run at it's max speed. That makes sense. If you look carefully on the backside of that manifold block you will see a second valve with a screw adjustment for controlling max fan speed.

Anyway the coil on my solenoid valve had failed, so the fan was running all the time and keeping the engine too cool. I found in the DD service manual, the thermostats start to open at 182 and are wide open at 207, target operating temp for a Series 60 is 190 according the manual. I knew the coil was bad because an ohm meter showed no continuity through the coil. The new one showed right around 7 ohms resistance.

Newell shipped one to me for thirty bucks. I could have sourced it locally or via the internet if mine had any identification. The writing was long gone :-) After I got the new coil I searched around and found a cheaper one, yep 4 bucks cheaper. I really like it that Newell doesn't gouge you on parts.

Also, I learned that those electrical connections that Newell uses are made by Packard, and are called Weather Paks. You can get them in many places on the net, seems they are a standard high performance DC connector.

When I installed the new coil, the fan stopped turning at startup. Just for grins I disconnected the coil and the fan started again, so that confirmed the problem.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:24 AM   #2
Barry Rooker
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My 2001 DD60 was running a little hotter each year after having been a steady 180 degree machine. Then last year in April on I-40 it hit 230 & I knew that was just too hot. Anytime the fan went from it's standard 25% to 100%, the temp gauge needle would plummet. Yes, I'm told by Newell that my hydraulic fan runs at 25% at a minimum and goes to 100% upon default.

We re-cored the radiator this summer and it became an "ambient + 90 degrees" machine. Nice. But on a test spin today, with 95 ambient, it hit 210. And stayed there. Tapping on the new gauge didn't help. Infra-red gun shot at the DD60's thermostat housing confirmed the temp.

Now 210 isn't bad, it's fuel efficient in fact, but there's no margin for hotter weather or pulling a big grade. My fan used to come on at a lower temp. There's gotta be a temp sensor or switch (in the DDEC programming?) feeding that Vickers solenoid in the chunk of anodized aluminum where the hydraulic lines come from the pump & go to the fan motor.

Any ideas?
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #3
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Barry: are using a VMS program to monitor your engine? Anolog gages have a +or- 10% errror margin. I worried about sending unit and gauges and spent many dollars trying replace with new and still had the same heat problems. Now with my VMS which take reading off of the computor the true temp and other reading are very accurate and quick response with no delays. The anoloy temp gauge sometime goes to 230 and the VMS will show 205. Spend your money on a VMS before you start changing parts. I think I paid $395 from silver leaf and monitor with my lapetop using a split screen. VMS 1 side and Street & trip other side. Hope this helps
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:03 PM   #4
Barry Rooker
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Went to SilverLeaf's website & saw they have the VMS 330 which will display through my dedicated back up screen. Newell is a dealer of course. So I've emailed SilverLeaf for more info about this system. Thanks for the info.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:37 PM   #5
Richard and Rhonda
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Barry, unless you are rolling in cash, you will find the VMSPc option to be the most economical.

I love it, and my temp dash gauge bounces around all over the place, but the VMS doesn't. I trust the VMS since it sees the same signal the DDEC does. The VDO gauges on the dash use a separate sender at the engine, and are extremely sensitive to grounding issues.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:47 PM   #6
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The website says the VMS 330 requires a color monitor - my rear view is black and white and I think I like it that way. Russ
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:31 AM   #7
Barry Rooker
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Regarding the VMS 330, no, I'm not rolling in cash, Richard. Just trying to get good info about my engine's actual temp. The VMS is probably overkill to get that info. At lease there's more I can do first. I've recently replaced the VDO gauge & sender & run a new ground. Also replaced the DDEC's nearby sender. The temp needle's steady and doesn't fall when the glass is tapped. My infra red gun comfirms the gauge's temp is almost correct, reading just five degrees on the high side. So what I was seeing yesterday was really 205, not 210. And the outside temp was 97 degrees. I'm probably okay.

I'm speculating the variable isn't bad info from the gauge, but a variance in when the hydraulic fan jumps from the constant 25% fan speed to 100%. That's a DDEC function. I need to see if the DDEC is reporting similar temps. It's never shut down, even when showing 230 last April.

The mechanic may have used gasket sealant when he put the engine senders in and that could understate actual temps to the gauge & the DDEC. A bad ground at the gauge could overstate temps at the gauge. Hope I've got that right.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:51 AM   #8
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From the DD S60 shop manual, the thermostat starts to open at 190 and is fully open at 205. That's the thermostat in the engine. As you said the DDEC controls the fan.

I'll look for the DDEC shutdown temp tomorrow.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:24 AM   #9
Barry Rooker
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3-4 years ago, back when my engine ran a steady 180, winter & summer, the temp gauge hit maybe 200 on a long grade or at 105 degrees in the desert, the temp gauge needle would plummet, like a rock, when the fan went to 100%.

It was, literally, like flipping a switch. I'm not seeing that lately, suggesting that something has changed in that department.

I've got more research to do: DDEC reader & temp's shown; more infra red gun comparisons with the temp gauge.

My engine coolant thermostats are new & are marked as 180 degree units. The housing was crud-free, no coating seen. That was encouraging. From what you're reading in the Detroit 60 manual, apparently, they open gradually. Hmmm...several variables here.

Newell sounds somewhat baffled when I speak to them about DDEC fan on/fan off temps & the possibility of re-setting them at the DDEC. I'm thinking Detroit shipped these engines with pre-set on/off temps in the DDEC, possibly specified by Newell or chosen by Detroit. But that doesn't explain the apparent change in my hydraulic fan's on/off temp. I'm in way over my head.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:30 PM   #10
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I will have to look around to find the DD info, but to the best of memory the S60 is supposed to run around 195 to 200 optimum. 180 is a bit cool based on that.

Did you put the 180 thermostats in? That doesn't sound original based on what little I know.
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Rhonda's chronicle http://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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