Black water valve question

David and Teresa · 12-14-2008, 05:57 PM

We spent all day yesterday checking out and learning systems in our new (to us) Newell. I have a list of things to check further and this one is at the top of the list.

We want to dump grey water to the outside while parked at home which requires closing the valve to the black water tank and opening the air dump valve. My issue is I can't close and lock the black water valve. It gets about a half inch to the bottom and stops. I'm assuming there are solids there preventing the closure. I've cleaned it with a snake, stuck a water hose up there, everything and it still won't close and lock.

Has this happened to anyone and what was the solution?

Richard and Rhonda · 12-15-2008, 12:53 AM

Yep, I had exactly the same problem. If am assuming you also have the Dupree valves. If you look at the top of the valve you will see two screws. If you remove them you can remove the slide gate. Mind was all mangled and that why it wouldn't close. I called Dupree and had a new one and a spare in a couple of days. Here is their website http://www.dupreeproducts.com/

Now, let's talk about another comment you made. You said open the air operated dump valve to let the grey out. Mine is not configured that way. My air valve is on the passenger side and I think it drains everything. On the driver side I have two dump valves one that isolates that tank, and one that if will allow grey water to pass directly to the sewer hose.

Yours may be different, but it might pay to trace out the piping to make sure you don't make a oh=oh.

fulltiming · 12-15-2008, 01:14 AM

David, mine is configured similarly to Richards other than the passenger side air valve dumps the waste tank only unless you have the driver side outlet valve closed and the driver side waste valve open. If you study the plumbing, you will likely find that everything except the toilet goes into the pipe that connects between the driver side outlet valve and the valve next to the waste tank.

I have seen Newells where there was a air dump valve on both sides.

My valves are Thetford valves rather than Dupree but they may have been replaced at some point since the outlet doesn't line up quite right. Since you mentioned locking the valve (although the Thetford valves do have tabs to lock the handle down.

encantotom · 12-15-2008, 02:30 AM

Not an answer as you are asking, but a fun story....

out last coach before our newell was an older Executive. years ago we took it on an all summer trip, 14 years ago to be exact.

when we stopped to spend a week with my motherinlaw on the farm in alberta, i was parked on the grass yard about 3-400 feet from the farmhouse. my family stayed in the house and i spent time in the coach.

i needed to dump the tanks so i asked my fatherinlaw where to dump. he looked at me like i was crazy and said "just dump right where you are" . i didnt want to smell the dumpage, so i drove down the yard some and dumped. he then said he would just take the tractor and mow over it. he said the cows dump all over, so what is the difference.

a real difference in perspective between me the city boy and the old farmer....

that said, i dont have a dump on the passenger side like you guys do. in its place i have a macerator pump which works just dandy.

and my valves are the same as michaels.

later

tom

David and Teresa · 12-15-2008, 10:08 PM

OK, I had a little time before it got dark today.

I have a passenger dump air-valve which looks like it dumps the waste tank (grey and black water together, right. no separate grey water tank) through a bottom opening on the chassis.

Then on the driver side, I have a hand operated valve (the one that won't fully close) on the waste tank and an air operated valve downstream from this (where the hose hooks). I'm assuming that when hooked up and letting the grey water dump while holding the black, the hand operated valve must be closed. I saw the two screws on the top which to take it apart.

Now, on the passenger side there is also a hose bib input to the top of the waste tank. There is a yellow valve handle. I am guessing that you can fill the tank from here if you are flushing it for cleaning. I'm wondering if I should fill the tank and then dump and maybe the pressure will force any solids (if that's what's wrong) from the driver side valve.

Have I got this right?

David

fulltiming · 12-15-2008, 10:25 PM

OK, your is like mine other than having the air operated valve on the drivers side as well.

When you close the manual valve and open the air valve on the drivers side, only the toilet goes into the tank, everything else goes out the hose into the sewer. When you want everything to go into the tank (such as when sewer isn't available or when traveling) close the air valve and open the manual valve. That way EVERYTHING goes into the tank.

I don't have a waste tank clean out valve (although I do have a fresh water tank fill on both sides), I doubt that you will be able to get the plug relieved by filling the tank. Poo sets up VERY hard. I would drain the tank from the passenger side to minimize the mess, the try to remove the manual drain valve as Richard suggested. Is it the Thetford or the Dupree?

That is the reason that leaving the waste tank valve open all the time when hooked to sewer is NOT a good idea at all.

Wally Arntzen · 12-16-2008, 01:47 PM

Unless you let the tank go dry the waste should not set up hard at the bottom of the tank. Your air operated toilet should be breaking the waste up into small pieces and mixing with the other grey liqueds being added to the tank.
You probably have defective valves and they can be replaced.
I had one that broke and I got two new valves and some PVC elbows, some 4" rubber connectors and a few stainless clamps and redid the entire drainage system in about 3 hours. I did this 4 years ago and have not had a problem since.

When connecting up at an RV park you drain your tank close the grey water valve and leave the main valve open for the shower, kitchen sink and bath sink to drain continuously.
Drain the grey tank about once a week or sooner if you have heavy usage and back flush the tank about 4 times a year if you are fulltiming like I am.

Good luck and happy travels,

Wally Arntzen

fulltiming · 12-16-2008, 02:27 PM

Depending on the location of David's toilet, he may have an electric operated toilet rather than a air/electric toilet. The air/electric toilets are typically only used when the toilet can't be located directly over the waste tank. Mine is over the tank so mine is not air assisted.

At some point, someone has removed the valves and connected plumbing on my coach and replaced them although they used the hard black sewer plumbing parts and glued them together so a redo will be a much bigger job than they way you did yours Wally.

Wally Arntzen · 12-16-2008, 09:14 PM

Hi Micheal,

I removed everything from the tank to the drop elbow at the bottom of the coach.
It is a simple replacement. I glued all of the fittings including the gate valves together and used a hard rubber sleeve from the tank and another hard rubber sleeve from the drop line of the grey water system. I can now remove the entire unit and service both gate valves if I have any problems in the future.

All I have to do is remove the two stainless bands that hold the rubber sleeves to the PVC
lines and pull the entire unit out.

Thanks much, Wally

David and Teresa · 12-16-2008, 11:16 PM

My toilet is air assisted. Tomorrow, if I have daylight after work, I'm going to try flushing the tank. If the problem persists, then it is the manual valve as others have rightly diagnosed.

Thanks to all who have assisted me on this.

David

tuga · 02-01-2009, 09:17 PM

[QUOTE=David and Teresa;3449]OK, I had a little time before it got dark today.

I have a passenger dump air-valve which looks like it dumps the waste tank (grey and black water together, right. no separate grey water tank) through a bottom opening on the chassis.

Then on the driver side, I have a hand operated valve (the one that won't fully close) on the waste tank and an air operated valve downstream from this (where the hose hooks). I'm assuming that when hooked up and letting the grey water dump while holding the black, the hand operated valve must be closed. I saw the two screws on the top which to take it apart.

Now, on the passenger side there is also a hose bib input to the top of the waste tank. There is a yellow valve handle. I am guessing that you can fill the tank from here if you are flushing it for cleaning. I'm wondering if I should fill the tank and then dump and maybe the pressure will force any solids (if that's what's wrong) from the driver side valve.

David,

I have coach #512 so I have the same setup as you do. The hand operated sewer valve does not fully close because toilet paper accumulates in the ridge where the black rubber sewer PADDLE seats inside the valve body. If you open both the air valve and the manual valve on the driver's side you can rinse out the manual valve where the paddle seats with a garden hose. Repeat this rinsing out process several times until the manual paddle seats completely. Of course your waste tank must be completely drained first.

I did this and it worked, but it is now time to repeat the process because the darn thing is not seating again.

Actually, the valve should be mounted so that the valve shaft is pointing east/west instead of south. That would prevent anything from getting caught on the ridge that the paddle seats into.

IF ANYONE AT NEWELL IS LISTENING THIS NEEDS TO BE RE-ENGINEERED. ALL 3 OF MY NEWELLS HAD THIS SAME PROBLEM. That manual valve shaft needs to open/close east or west not south.

David and Teresa · 02-02-2009, 10:01 PM

Yea, I have a valve coming in and was waiting for the install to post the results.

I'm assuming that this valve should remain closed at all times until you are ready to dump. Then close it immediately after dumping. I think mine messed up because it remained open all the time and would not close when it needed to. I plan to allow grey water to pass while parked at my house.

David

tuga · 02-02-2009, 11:37 PM

David,

I misread your post, sorry.

David and Teresa · 02-02-2009, 11:44 PM

So it would be correct to keep the manual valve closed all the time except when dumping, right?

David

fulltiming · 02-03-2009, 06:39 AM

David, I live in my Newell and typically I leave the valve at the tank closed and leave the valve near the outlet open so the gray water bypasses the tank. I do find that sitting stationary for a while, this will result in paper and debris collecting on the waste tank sensors and they will cease to function properly. Every few weeks, I will close the valve near the outlet and leave the valve near the tank open to allow the water from the shower, sink and washer to flow into the holding tank. That will usually clean the sensors. It also helps push any debris that might accumulate near the tank valve back into the tank.

When you are traveling, the motion of the coach will help keep the sensors and the area around the valves clean. The biggest issue is having solids in the holding tank and leaving the coach sitting for an extended period. The solids settle out and then concentrate at the seat of the valve when the valve is opened. Eventually, the solids will jam the valve guides it the valve is left opened and may stick the valve if left closed. As is frequently the situation, use is the best medicine.

Wally Arntzen · 02-03-2009, 01:28 PM

Micheal,
Has it been determined if David has a air operated toilet or standard. When I first got my 88 coach the gate valve for the waste tank did not work and when I contacted the previous owner he told me that he never closed it.
It was froze in place and did not work. I replaced the entire system including both gate valves and have never had a problem since.
The air operated toilets act as a macerator and there are no large pieces of waste going into the tank that would plug it up. These toilets use 60 pounds of air with the water to break up the waste and when dumped into the tank mixing with the normal liqued waste there is no build up on the bottom of the tank.
David more than likely has a bad gate valve that can be corrected with a replacement which could be easy like mine was or somewhat time consuming like yours was.

Wally

encantotom · 02-03-2009, 09:18 PM

i saw the job wally did and it is really slick. he made it so the entire assembly is removable to be able to repair the gate valves.

really nice job

wally, can you post a picture of it? or have you?

tom

David and Teresa · 02-12-2009, 12:52 AM

OK, a new manual valve is on and everything works the way it should.

Thanks.

David

fulltiming · 02-12-2009, 06:02 PM

One more success story. Glad that solved your problem David.

madson95 · 05-11-2009, 01:17 AM

the coupling on my sewer hose is larger than the replacement couplers that i have bin able to find. mine are white. i have two but i would like to find one that has a hose connection on it so i can hook up a garden hose on the gray water, rather than the big sewer hose
anyone have a sugestion? tried about 10 different rv shops and they all say they are all universel size, and they have never seen like mine it seems much heaver than the new ones tks.

madson95
85 wb 40' 8v92
vw bug diesel toad
tex & iowa