Air system schematic - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:56 AM   #1
Richard and Rhonda
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Default Air system schematic

Do any of you have an air system schematic? Either from Newell or one you have deduced yourself?

I am trying to figure out how the air system works to help pinpoint the likely causes of leaks. The coach is a 95 model.

Yes I know a spray bottle of soapy water is my best tool in this quest, but I have a natural curiosity about the workings of the leveling system.

I would be happy if someone could just explain the six solenoid valves on the "six pack" and what each one of them is supposed to do.

Thanks

Richard
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:41 AM   #2
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The six pack for air manifold for the front axle contains six solenoids, four of these are for the leveling system when parked: left front raise, left front lower, right front raise, right front lower, The two remaining solenoids control the travel height (raise and lower). The drive axle six pack and the tag axle six pack are similar to the front axle six pack.

The travel solenoids are controlled by the three ride height valves, center of front axle, right side of drive axle and left side of drive axle. The leveling solenoids are controlled by the level sensor, typically located in the center of the bay, near the center of the coach mounted to the ceiling of the bay.

Each six pack has a single air supply line going into it and air lines that go to the corresponding air bags and to an air release valve.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:54 AM   #3
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the manifold for the front solenoids on mine is directly under the drivers side headlight.

the manifold for the rear on mine is on the passenger side engine firewall.

tom
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:03 PM   #4
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I knew you guys would come through. I found both of them, and had the bride hit some leveling switchs so I could see hear which ones were connected to which switch. Michael filled in the pieces of the puzzle.

Mine doesn't have an automatic system. You can control each corner with a toggle switch at the driver's console. I am assuming that the MASTER switch that allows you to raise/lower the overall height temporarily overides the travel height solenoids.

Let me run my thinking by both of you. We can do this via PM, but if we use the forum, then the next guy will be able to find this info.

Anyway, the right rear will squat after one day with no compressors running. The other three corners stay up. There is NO system pressure by then. So, there must be check valves on the air bags when in leveling mode ????? Or is the leveling solenoid the only device in the pressure path for leveling? I am trying to understand what is happening that results in the system pressure leaking to zero and only one corner dropping. BTW, the check valves that isolate the brake system are holding, since the brake pressure hangs in there around 115.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:37 PM   #5
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I agree that discussing problems on the board rather than through PM's is of benefit to more people since they can see the solutions and later search for the information.

If the right rear is losing air, I would check 1) the dump/lower solenoid at the six pack for that axle to see if it is fully closing, 2) the air connections to the solenoids for that corner at the six pack, 3) the nipple going into the right rear air bag, and 4) the air bags on that corner for excessive cracking or crazing.

The solenoids do tend to start leaking by not fully seating with time. A year ago I replaced all 18 of my solenoids just due to age, well that and the fact that one of the dump valve was sticking closed so the right rear would not always drop.

This year I had to replace the left rear ride height valve due to the crack in the valve body. I was losing 20 psi in 12 minutes. The leak didn't show up by spraying soapy water on it. So much air was leaking out that it physically blew the water away from the valve instead of bubbling.

Your comment about the pressure staying up on the brake tanks is important. If anyone starts seeing the pressure of one or both of the brake supply tanks dropping with the main supply tank get it fixed ASAP. There is a check valve in each of the lines that come off the main supply tank. Losing brake air is a bad deal. I had leaks in both of my brake check valves. The longer the coach sits without being used the more likely the check valves will fail. If the coach has small air leaks, and they all do, and the system pressure goes to zero, outside damp air can get into the tanks over time and cause rust, especially in the check valves.

If anyone is interested, I can post photos of the crack in the travel valve and/or the defective brake check valves.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:24 PM   #6
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i believe that if the air connections were leaking, you would be able to easily see bubbles using windex. the same for the nipple going into the airbag. the leak you are talking about is a slow one and not fast like fulltiming describes. i had one fast leak that lowerd the right front only in leveling mode (mine is manual like yours and totally fabricated by newell) and it showed it self by air coming out of the ride height control valve centered on the front axle. it was a bad solenoid that was letting air escape through the control valve.

if you cant see leaks on the airbags themselves along with the other places listed above, my guess is you have a bad solenoid. i am cheaper than Michael and only replaced the 3 solenoids that i had that were bad. the other two just didnt work. i keep one spare with me now, but at 80 bucks a pop i will replace them as they go bad. i can change one now in about ten minutes or less and it is easy.

i agree with michael on the air brake pressure. the thing we all have to remember is at a certain brake pressure loss, the wheels will lock up.

i had a leak on the air brake dryer and bought the rebuild kit and it fixed it easy.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:28 PM   #7
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i believe that if the air connections were leaking, you would be able to easily see bubbles using windex. the same for the nipple going into the airbag. the leak you are talking about is a slow one and not fast like fulltiming describes. i had one fast leak that lowerd the right front only in leveling mode (mine is manual like yours and totally fabricated by newell) and it showed it self by air coming out of the ride height control valve centered on the front axle. it was a bad solenoid that was letting air escape through the control valve.

if you cant see leaks on the airbags themselves along with the other places listed above, my guess is you have a bad solenoid. i am cheaper than Michael and only replaced the 3 solenoids that i had that were bad. the other two just didnt work. i keep one spare with me now, but at 80 bucks a pop i will replace them as they go bad. i can change one now in about ten minutes or less and it is easy.

i agree with michael on the air brake pressure. the thing we all have to remember is at a certain brake pressure loss, the wheels will lock up.

i had a leak on the air brake dryer and bought the rebuild kit and it fixed it easy.

tom
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:15 PM   #8
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I used enough soapy water this weekend to wash the street

Anyway, I only found one leak, at that was on the control valve for sliding the generator in and out. It was bubbling pretty good, so we'll see the impact of fixing that.

With your input, I did get a much better idea of how the air system works, and especially how you can get front to back, or side to side leveling. I didn't have a good understanding of how the ride height system worked with the leveling system. Now I do. When in ride height mode, the ride height solenoid opens to allow air to flow to the ride height valve, which in turns pressurizes or depressurizes the appropriate bag. When in leveling mode those solenoids are closed, and the up/down solenoids pressurize the appropriate tank which feeds the bag.

My biggest lack of understanding came from the wrong assumption. I had a picture of how the air system worked on my Mountain Aire. It only had one front tank and one rear tank, and the leveling was done with hydraulic jacks. The breakthrough in comprehension came when I saw that each set of air bags for an axle has it's unique tank. So, the air piping and valving to work that way is completely different than what I was thinking. The moral of the story.......there is NO substitute for crawling around under your coach.

I had my bride actuate the leveling toggles to help me identify which solenoid was connected to which toggle. I used a very sophisticated and expensive device to determine which solenoid was firing. An steel nail. When the solenoid fires it is magnetized.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:54 PM   #9
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It's good news and bad news. The good news is I found a big air leak where a line went into one of the press on fittings. It was on a solenoid WAY up under the coach hidden along the frame rail. I used a compression fitting to replace the one that was leaking. The line looked like it was under a little sideways stress which the press lok fittings don't like.

The bad news? I had hoped to draw a complete schematic of the air system for my own benefit. That didn't happen because the air lines are all bundled together making it impossible to physically trace individual air lines. If I get bored or industrious, I'll snip all the zip ties and trace them out.
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulltiming View Post
The solenoids do tend to start leaking by not fully seating with time. A year ago I replaced all 18 of my solenoids just due to age, well that and the fact that one of the dump valve was sticking closed so the right rear would not always drop.

This year I had to replace the left rear ride height valve due to the crack in the valve body. I was losing 20 psi in 12 minutes. The leak didn't show up by spraying soapy water on it. So much air was leaking out that it physically blew the water away from the valve instead of bubbling.
.
Michael,
Dredging up an old thread I would like to pose a question. You have replaced all 18 solenoids. I am curious just what parts that includes, surely more than just the electrical coil itself. Here is what Newell just told me about what one receives when the "solenoid" is ordered. Please just comment some more on what tends to fail with age. I want to be prepared to fix a failed valve on the road. Thanks - Newell says "
THE SOLENOID NC-5391 THAT IíM TALKING ABOUT IS MADE BY HWH THERE SIX OF THEM ON A ALUMINUM BLOCK IT INCLUDES THE COIL ,2 WIRES , ORINGS IT IS 12V ,9.5 WATTS ,PSI125 , ORIF: 3/32 ALL METAL TYPE SOLENOID ! "
By the way, the price as of 9/2010 is $103.18.
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