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Old 12-31-2009, 11:50 PM   #1
Rockcreek73
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Default Air Dryer

We are the proud new owners of a 2004, #701. I need to ask you forum members, where is your air dryer located? The dryer on our coach is inside the right side tag wheel well. This seems like an unusual place for an air dryer. It catches all the elements (rain, snow, ice, salt, etc.) going down the road. The air system on this coach has been compromised with moisture and rust, and now is giving us problems in cold weather. I am thinking that this air dryer needs to be re-located.
Mike
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Old 01-01-2010, 12:32 AM   #2
tuga
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Mike,

On my 1999 Newell I have 3 air dryers:
one next to the generator (120V auxillary air pump) it has a filter that can be drained,
the second one (12V auxillary air pump) located in the Aqua Hot bay & the drain for it is located in the passenger side drive axle well - it has a petcock to open and drain,
the third one is in the driver's side tag well - it is a spin on filter and it keeps the engine air system dry.

There are also a couple of air bladder tanks that keep the air brake system dry. They are located under the coach between the drive axle and the tag axle (petcocks). There is one more in the front of the coach around the steering axle.

Hope this helps. If it doesn't, do like the rest of us do: call Newell!
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:50 AM   #3
Richard and Rhonda
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My dessicant cartridge is in the same place. However, the air system is completely sealed from the outside elements, so the compromised state of the air system is not related to the location of the dessicant cartridge. My system is plumbed so that air from the big compressor on the engine, and air from the auxilliary compressor travels through the air dryer before it goes into the system.

I would suspect a couple of things if you have water in your system. One, the dessicant cartridge was not changed frequently enough. Two, you have a decent air leak and you keep your aux compressor running when docked. Either situaition could put a lot of wet air in your system.

Taking Tuga's lead, do you get water when you drain the air tanks under the coach? If so, the cartridge NEEDS to be changed.

When you said your system was compromised, could you elaborate?
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:22 PM   #4
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I too have the 120V and 12V compressors, 5 tanks full of rust, and valves that are froze open as I am still having too much fun working up here in this cold weather in Montana during Janury!! If I were South I would not be having these problems!. Anyway, we spent the Christmas Holiday in the Black Hills with Grandkids, and the system valves froze open and would not hold air on one side. We got the coach into Ed's Truck Center in Rapid last Monday, and they did what they could, drained the tanks, changed the dryer caartridge, injected methanol into the system, and everything worked fine as I was inside for about 4 hours and everthing thawed out. We got home, backed into my unheated bus barm, and guess what. Valves leaked down immediantly, being froze open again. This system is so full of rust and water, I think the only way to trust it is new tanks & valves. The Aux compressors are running constantly to keep the slide seals up. Unfortunately, it's back to the factory. This coach was not ready for the cold weather. There are other issues also.
I just thought it was a parculiar place for an air dryer, inside the wheel well, os thought I'd ask... Thanks !
Mike
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:12 PM   #5
encantotom
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i guess the engineer in me wonders what would need to be replaced if there is rust everwhere from too much water. also, why is there so much water in the system? i also looked for generic 12"x27" brake air tanks and they are under 100 dollars.

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index....categoryID=470

the valves are obviously freezing from water and holding the air flow open rather than closed.

if the rust was excessive enough to require tanks to be changed, what is the process for purging the other things out? i would be most concerned about the brakes and secondarily the air operated things.

it sure doesnt seem like a trip all the way to oklahoma is the only solution, but then again i dont have the time to do that anyway so i always look for how to do it myself or locally.

any experts to weigh in here?

tom
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:25 AM   #6
Richard and Rhonda
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Wow, I would say compromised was a good choice of words. It sounds like there was a big leak, and the aux pump was left running continuously to keep the pressure up. If the dessicant is not changed or the traps not drained, you can put a LOT of water into the air system. Now, unfortunately, you have to deal with the consequences.

You'll have to figure me, but I'm and engineer, and a chemical one at that. Adding methanol to a system with water in it will not prevent the water from freezing if the proportion of methanol to water isn't pretty high.

I don't know how you are rigged for heat or getting under the coach, but I would try to heat the barn or wait until the temp is above freezing and drain the tanks several times.

Are you trying to keep air in the system? That may be impossible until you get the air out of the tanks. I am assuming you either have auto drains, or lanyard drains on the tanks. I have the old fashioned manual drains that require me to crawl under to drain them.

I wouldn't make any big decisions about what to do until I got the water out of the tanks.

Also like Tom said, it may be wise to check the brake cans to see if they have water in them. Us warm weather boys don't think about water in our air system too much from a freezing standpoint, but where you live it can be a huge safety problem.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:50 AM   #7
Wally Arntzen
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I always use my coach in extremly cold weather (sometimes below -20 degrees). About 7 years ago I was in Santa Fe, New Mexico and was leaving in the morning and the air line froze that operates the accelarator.The coach was running in idel and the pedal would not increase the RPM's n the engine. I called a deisel mechanic out and he new exactley what it was. He removed a plug in the system poured in a pint of alcohol and it was imediatley remidied.
When I got back to Minneapolis my mechanic friend put a quart of alcohol in all my air tanks.
Now I have a quart of alcohol put in all of my tanks every October to carry me through the winter no matter where I am. I have never had anything in the air system freeze up since and he informed me that they do that to all of the buses that run in cold weather or there would be countless problems in the Northern arear of the country.Get your rusty tanks, bad check valves, water seperators, etc, replaced and put alcohol in the tanks and you will be good to go. End of discussion.
Thats the fat mans position and I'm sticking with it.

Just get er done and Happy New Year.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:47 AM   #8
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A follow up on my previous comments.

When I first got my coach I had a whole bunch of air leaks. Problems similar to what you are having. I replaced two of my large air tanks and the small one for the air operated toilet due to rust holes on some of the welded seams. I replaced all of the check valves in the coach and all of the air switches, and air seperators.
Since my troubles in Santa Fe with the line freeze up and the anuall installation of alcohol it has been perfect.
I am totally comfortable driving my coach anywhere in the winter in extremely cold weather and not worrying about freeze ups as well as driving it anywhere in the summer in extremely hot weather and not having above average temperatures. When Newell built these coaches I beleive the did so with design's to allow them to function comfortably in any weather condition.
If we maintain them properly they should continue to run under any weather conditions.
I believe that if we have coaches that are 15 to 25 years old and they are heating up that our radiators are bad and need to be replaced or rebuilt. I had mine rebuilt and I can guarantee you that my temperature does not over 190 degrees under any temperature conditions. It rarley goes over 185. My generator is the same as the engine never going over 185 but in most conditons it runs at 165.
I know friends of mine on this site are putting in water squirter systems to cool the radiators and other micky mouse add ons but they are not fixing the radiator which will fix all of the problems. The same goes for the air leak problems, its got nothing to with how Newell built the coaches, but everything about how they have been maintained over the years.
These coaches were built to run under any conditions and if we put the time and right repairs in them there is no reason that they will do that for a long, long time.

I'm like everbody else on the site and like to do my own work, the cheapist way I can but I respect the fact that there are some things that you just have to bite the bullet and do it right.
I'm not an engineer like many of the guys on the site, so I do not try to figure the complicated details of why something does not work, I just get at it and replace it if i'm confident that it is broke or not functioning as designed. I tend to over maintain my vehicle but as I said before and will repeat, when I leave on a trip I drive my vehicle with confidence and do not worry about it not getting through the cold or hot weather and if it does fail I know that a phone call or two will get me on the road in short order.
This is getting long and probably boring so i'm done on this topic.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:53 AM   #9
Wally Arntzen
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Thanks for the private message Mike.
All of my tanks have a shraeder valve on the bottom and my mechanic friend has a one quart tank that connects to an air line. He fills the quart canistor and blows the alcohol into the tanks. I leave the alcohol in the tanks through the winter and drain them in the spring.
I generally drain the air out of all my tanks 2 to 3 times a year. I generally put 30,000 plus miles on my coach annually so draining the tanks depends on the usage of the vehicle.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:26 PM   #10
tuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encantotom View Post
i guess the engineer in me wonders what would need to be replaced if there is rust everwhere from too much water. also, why is there so much water in the system? i also looked for generic 12"x27" brake air tanks and they are under 100 dollars.

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index....categoryID=470

the valves are obviously freezing from water and holding the air flow open rather than closed.

if the rust was excessive enough to require tanks to be changed, what is the process for purging the other things out? i would be most concerned about the brakes and secondarily the air operated things.

it sure doesnt seem like a trip all the way to oklahoma is the only solution, but then again i dont have the time to do that anyway so i always look for how to do it myself or locally.

any experts to weigh in here?

tom

tom,

keep in mind that Mike's coach has a 2 year - 24,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty by Newell Coach. They will fix anything that is broken - FREE!
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:54 PM   #11
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yea, i got that from exchanging some messages with them.

my warranty is my toolbox and my checkbook.

tom
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