What does it take to add a slide room to a coach and is it feasable? - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:30 PM   #1
86loco
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Default What does it take to add a slide room to a coach and is it feasable?

I think I got the hint from "Neweller" on this hot button topic. Many of us are seriously contemplating moving towards a larger coach such as a Newell that is longer or with slides. I have spoken with a couple of you here on this site why you are selling or already have sold moving towards buying a slide coach. I do realize there are pros and cons when going with a slide. We (the wife and I) have been looking at slide coaches and feel we would be really happy in a two slide coach. We do not desire any more than that. So the 64 million dollar question is how can we obtain one without breaking the bank or going into too much debt over it? Does it make any sense to have one put in or is it absolutely cost prohibitive?

Thanks for all those with bright answers.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:27 PM   #2
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Not sure of the cost but I would wonder once you add the slides, do the necessary interior updates how close would you be to the cost of trading up to a newer 2 slide coach?
And don't forget that the newer coach would have the series 60 engine, aquahot, and other nice to have upgrades. And you would have Newell engineered slides with their legendary factory support
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:14 PM   #3
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Brady and Forest, thanks for dragging me into this one! If you don't know me by now then you will eventually figure out that I'm the guy that says go for it, just do it or hey, lets go for it! Now, does anyone want to hear my take on this thought? I do agree with Brady and Forest, as they both are correct with their assumption in my book. Not saying my book is gold lined or anything, I'm always just spewing something crazy or ____.

Let's ask a couple simple questions. 1) Can slide's be added to a Newell professionally? Yes they can. 2) Can slide's be added to a Newell at a realistic cost? I believe it can depending on all the relative factors. Now that we have those simple questions out of the way lets move on. And of course I'm looking for anyone else rationale here too.

We must ask; what are we willing to spend to upgrade a non-slide coach professionally? If you had a Classic, early 2000 Series or a late 2000 Series with a Series 60 engine, would it be feasible?

I'm thinking if Newell Coach factory was willing to add a new slide for around $35,000 each, some folks would pay it. Now whether there would be enough profit in it for them, they would have to answer that. A few years ago on this very same forum we had some dialog and I don't remember who stated it, but they just didn't think it was a good idea from a structural engineering standpoint. But recently I spoke with someone that knows the Newell inside and out, they told me that it would not be a problem to do, since the Newell bottom structure was the strongest in the industry and naturally designed for slides virtually anywhere.

The reason the factory hesitates on offering them is mainly from a marketing standpoint, it may affect newer coach sales. After pondering this for some time, I believe they actually could be missing the mark with this train of thought and feel they should offer it and with a normal warranty as with any other update or modification they do. I also realize that slide's are figured in right at $150,000 each on a new coach. But prices on a new coach are not the same even though you would think it would be cheaper building from the get go. It wouldn't necessarily be true, since new coaches have a ton more electronics and accessories compared to an old coach.

About ten years ago I spoke with a company down in Arizona that was knocking out their own slides and installing them for right $6000.00. They have long went out of business, mainly since the market changed with companies like Prevost not willing to take any responsibility for coaches having aftermarket slides installed. I believe that to be fair. That is why Prevost builds most slides you see nowadays themselves for bus/RV converters or the other options would be if you are a coach converter and can pass their quality assurance requirements such as companies like Featherlite, you can build your own.

I know that if you wanted a level floor slide done, you would like to have Newell do the job, if you didn't care about it being a level floor surface design, you could have someone else do it. There are companies offering the service for buses and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't want to give it a try for a fair profit.

We need to ask Newell if they are willing to do it and if so at what cost. I do know people that already own their Newell and if you love the coach you have the way it is and would really like a slide installed and keep it, then it could be very worthwhile. What if you already have some upgrades like a new engine or other accessories on a non-slide coach and if you sell it, you will loose thousands, what would you do if you had a choice?

There are a few questions here that we can dialog on and we may actually find a more feasible solution then say selling and trying to upgrade. I have to believe it's possible. I'll dig deeper into it myself and anyone else with anything to add, please do so. That day in the future could come when there are more folks wanting used Newell's then the supply in demand, especially with slides. With current and past production at Newell only being 24 coaches a year, what do think is going to happen?
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #4
GORDON HUMMEL
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Another negative is that of weight. I am within 900lbs of capacity on my front axle & I'm only 41.5'
I'm within 1900 lbs on my drive axle, but that is WITHOUT water
My tag is rated at 10K, but I have < 6k on it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:56 PM   #5
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Gordon, you make a great point as usual. Weight would be an area, we would have to address. What can be done in this area to allow any gain in weight from a slide? Depending on how that is done may or may not kill the feasibility of this option. We know Newell's are heavy on the bottom side. The suspension and tire changes if done reasonably could make the difference but we would have to understand some particulars.

Does anyone know what a particular size slide physically weighs?
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:37 AM   #6
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Some info on tire/rim upgrades



http://www.luxurycoachlifestyle.com/...443-newer.html
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:44 AM   #7
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The following information is what Newell ran as the standards from the 70's forward until they went to the 365's as of current mounted on 22.5 rims up front:

Newell Coach has had years of experience at the factory observing the performance of a variety of tire brands and sizes on Newells. The bottom line: don't put reliance solely on the rated capacity when selecting new tires.

From the mid-70s through 1985, Newell installed 11R22.5 Michelin steel belted radial tires with excellent results. With the upgrade to the 8V92 engine in 1985, they began fitting 11R24.5 radials, load range H, most of which were Goodyears (owing to the influence of Newell Coach customer Roger Penske and his experience with Goodyears on the race track as well as with Hertz Penske truck rental). Once again, the results were excellent. Newell later switched to Bridgestones to get more even tread wear, but both brands performed very well.

In the early 1990s, the factory realized they were seeing some fully loaded front axle weights that were bumping up around the rated capacity of the tires, especially with fully timers who carried an entire house worth of gear. However, with the exception of some failures that appeared linked to under-inflation and very high speed cruising, these tires gave good service and were very reliable. The actual capacity appeared to be significantly higher than the rated capacity assigned by the tire manufacturer. Ditto for the wheels.

In 1997 Newell introduced their first slide-outs and front axle weight took an upward bump. The factory took another look at the tire situation and saw that they could increase the rated front axle capacity if they changed to 315 load range L "low profile" tires, initially on the steer axle only. Newell then made the change, upgrading the coach "rated capacity." But in spite of the increased capacity on paper, we immediately began experiencing a pattern of steer axle tire failure. Problems were experienced with both Bridgestone and Goodyear tires in the 315 size. So, they went through several successive tire models with Goodyear, each promised to solve the problem, but without relief until finally changing new production to Michelin with good results. In fact, Newell was so concerned about the failures being seen with Bridgestone and Goodyear that Newell Coach did a NHTSA reported recall and replaced all the Bridgestone and Goodyear 315s (regardless of mileage) with new Michelins.

Since changing to the 315 Michelins, front tire failures declined and a few have seen what appears to be related to the following factors, often in combination:

1) Underinflation. The 315 should be inflated to a minimum of 130 psi, and but 140 psi is recommended for summer high speed crusing.

2) Speed. The Michelin 315 tire model installed should be rated at 75 mph (some models are rated at 55 mph maximum!), and the speed restriction should be observed.

3) Road hazard damage. One tire failure seen by the factory was caused by a cut on the tread that allowed moisture to rust the steel belt over a few months until the tread separated at highway speed.

4) Age. Tires deteriorate from a variety of age related causes, including UV rays and undetected road hazard damage. It is now recommend that steer axle tires be replaced at three years. Cheap insurance.

Based on Newell Coach factory experience, coaches running 11R24.5 load range H front tires need not be "upgraded" to 305 tires to simply get more rated capacity. However, for both coaches running 11R24.5 tires and later model coaches running 315 low profile tires, it's recommend that the front tires be replaced every three years regardless of miles, be kept properly inflated, and excessive speeds be avoided. The tires should be inspected reguarly for damage. For the 315 tires, it is recommended switching to Michelins with a speed rating of 75 mph.

Now what is interesting is the factory has gone back to the 22.5's which was common place up to 1985, but of course running 365's. Then when they went to the 24.5's it sounds as if the brakes also changed making it a problem for certain coaches to run 22.5's. If an older coach runs 22.5's, what we now need to find out is, how large of a tire size can an owner go and retain tire clearance. If it was only a matter of enlarging the wheel well openings that would not be all that major.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:35 AM   #8
GORDON HUMMEL
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Ken,
I'm thinking the 70-85's Newells had 20 or 22's. I believe the 22.5 did not come out until the mid 90's. I was told that the 22.5 came to life because they have less rubber hence lower FET that the existing 24.5's. From what I have seen, it seems that all tire development past that point was done on the 22.5's

However, in 1984 I had the new Michelin Pilot 70 series x 19.5 put on my Pace Arrow. Seems there were 22.5 available then?

I'm getting old .......................





"From the mid-70s through 1985, Newell installed 11R22.5 Michelin steel belted radial tires with excellent results. With the upgrade to the 8V92 engine in 1985, they began fitting 11R24.5"
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:08 AM   #9
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Gordon, I would say your recollection is probably pretty close. When I first obtained my '76 Newell, it had I believe 10/20's and we put on new 11R 22.5's rims and tires, the '78 I had already had 11R 22.5's and the '86 I had last already had 11R 24.5's. Now whether any of them were original I don't know if I remember what any of documentation showed if anything. I do know the '76 had the 20" split-rims. Either way I'm pretty sure the early one's can accept the 22.5's. Tire height would again be a question with regard to clearance. I had quite a bit of space in the main portion of the wheel well, so it could be just a matter of enlarging the wheel well opening. More food for additional thought.






r
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:12 AM   #10
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I have to wonder why Newell doesn't offer the classic body style with slides, you know a new retro newell. Kind of how Prevost offers the XLII more classic look. If Newell ever did I'd buy one.
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