1999 Newell on Crankyape

[folivier]

http://www.crankyape.com/default.asp?pg=DispSingleItem&ItemNumber=15074 Double slide. Looks like it needs a good cleaning and some work but someone might be able to buy it fairly cheap.

[chockwald]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who cruises CrankyApe......

[express1]

That unit looks very good if pictures are current.....
worth 160k?

[afrench45]

I emailed Pat up at Newell, and he thought the 175-200 range.

[tuga]

Whenever I see a coach that is "busted up" like that one, I think of what kind of care was given to the engine and transmission. You can spend a whole lot of money quick on those two items if they are not properly maintained. Makes you wonder if the owner changed the oil, filters, anti-freeze, generator oil, filters, etc. I would be willing to bet that the owner doesn't have any maintenance records. You get what you pay for.

If you ever notice on the Newell website: 2 coaches will have vastly different prices! It is because one is ragged and the other is pristine. I'll admit that carpet, upholstery, and drapes can be replaced inexpensively, but if the owner negelcted those items that SHOW he more than likely neglected the stuff that doesn't.

Also, if he knew that the coach would be repo'd by the bank (and I am sure that it didn't come as a surprise)- do you think that he spent any money on little things like a brake job?

Just my .02

[Richard and Rhonda]

I have watched this with interest. When I was looking at getting in the Newell business, I had the opportunity to buy a coach of similar condition at a price much lower than the then market value. I was scared of what I couldn't see, and had similar concerns as Tuga's. It too was a coach who I suspected had "deferred" maintenance cause I think the oil change money was going up elsewhere.

Today, with experience with the Newell and the systems, I would have more confidence in taking a chance for a good price. However, I say that with a caution. One should either have some pretty good hands on mechanical skills or a deep pocket. It will take one or the either to put a ship like that right. The systems Newell uses are case hardened and will take a lot more abuse than we suspect.

My take away is that this COULD be a good buy for the right buyer, one who has the skills and time to fix the issues.

So let's say 180 is a really, really good price for a coach of that vintage in average working condition. I guestimate it will take about 30 to put that coach right if a person does most of the work himself (or in Jennifer's case, herself) Personally, I think if the coach sells for over 140, then someone is taking a big chance on a good outcome.

This is all speculation of course. An onsite could radically change the perspective. I agree with Tuga again, a given coach can vary 25% or more based on condition.

It will be interesting to see how this one ends up.

[afrench45]

Tuga and Richard, you both have brought up good points. The engine problem would be a turnoff for me. How much is a series 60 engine? I've heard around 15k. If you bought the coach cheap enough, you could still be in it fairly cheap. Tuga, I asked Newell what it would cost to replace the carpet in my coach; 15k! :o So, if they did replace the interior, I would say go someplace else. Also is it unusual for a 99' to have a full raised roof?

[tuga]

I don't know if it is unusual for a 99 to have a full raised but my 99 has one. The man who built it was 6'7" and his entire family was tall so he had that option installed. He also had the toilet raised 4" higher than normal. I had the riser removed because my feet didn't touch the floor when I was using it!

Keep in mind that changing the carpet in a slide coach MAY involve removing the slide room. I think that the bedroom slide has to be removed to change the carpet (not sure so don't quote me). The front slide room with the flat floor option may not have to have the slide room removed. Changing the carpet in a coach involves removing all of the sofas, dinette, driver's seat, passenger seat, etc. It is a time consuming process: Newell currently charges $95/hour so you can see it doesn't take long to run up a nice little bill. Couple that with the fact that Newell uses Fabrica carpet (very expensive, about $175/yd) and you come close to $15K.

I'm not trying to say don't buy a coach at a good price. It's like I said earlier; usually you get what you pay for.

[encantotom]

hi, time for the massively do it your selfer, redoer and gut my coach and put it back together guy to comment. (and terrible speller)

i dont understand the talk about new engines. these 60's are bulletproof. my guess is a connection to the scanner and you would know what is wrong. that and a fluid sample check would tell you if you are ok and or what is needed.

this coach was used alot dry camping. over 4k hours on the genny says that and that it was always on when driving. but, again these genny engines are meant to go forever if even roughly taken care of.

if i figure my billing rate and the 500-1000 hours i have in my coach, i could buy a very nice many slide coach, so that is why i dont go to newell for service.

they do fantastic work, but for renovations on older coaches, if you dont do most of it yourself, it is cost prohibitive. now that i have done it, i could have the couches, driver and passenger seats, frames around couches, dinette all out in a morning. the hard work with carpeting is taking out the zillions of staples. but that is just mindless work which i am good at.

the slide carpeting part i have to think there is a way to do without taking the slide out.

all other interior stuff is just work and a few bucks.

i am with richard on this one. i cant use the newell costs as examples of what it would take because that makes it a non starter.

there is NOTHING i wouldnt take on to fix on it. it is just time and money and if you have the time, you can spread the money part over time. look at dean, he is slowly doing his 93 as he can.

unless the engine was shot.....which i would suspect is not the case, the scanner along with an hour of an experienced mechanic can tell how the engine was.

i also guess that for much of the time it was owned by someone who cared for it, and probably only a minority of the time was just not kept up. that is a guess, but i would guess a good guess.

i would love the chance to have this baby, but not in the cards for me. it is a perfect one for someone like most of us who do most of our work and doesnt live in it full time.

as wally would say, thats my two cents worth and i am sticking to it.

btw, i had a big bucket of screws and bolts left when i put mine all back together. it all works well, so i wonder where they were supposed to go?

tom

[zcasa]

Hey Guys:

Very interesting analysis. Good thoughts and spot on. Enjoy reading your thoughts, processes and conclusions. Thanks for the postings. Tom, I'll bet I could use most of those screws for projects that I have done and lost all of those screws. At least you have them. lol. Happy Holidays to all.

David

[greatriver]

afrench45:

You said you contacted Pat Dwyer at Newell. Didn't he give you a heads up on the background of the coach? That would be my first place to go on something like this just as you did.

[prairieschooner]

hey guys, I bought a tester at Kragen Auto that tells me what the problem is with my "check engine" light. I think that the tester was about $65.00 to $75.00. Easy to read, just plug it in and it tells me what is wrong.

[afrench45]

Greatriver:
I just emailed it to Pat to see if he had seen it. When he responded, he took mention of the slight body damage, and the winshield. Generally though, the salesmen and servise tecs know the background on a coach. When I bought mine, many of the people in servise remembered working on it prior to my ownership and the people in production remeber building it.

[larryweikart]

I talked to Newell, about this coach, and was told it had not been in the shop since 06 and nothing in their records showed anything major reported...........so.......I took a trip to CrankyApe to see for myself. I really wasn't going to talk about it because I didn't want any additional bidding competition. However, I don't believe the bidding will stop at the amount I would be willing to give for this coach so I'll give you my thoughts for those of you who might have an interest. This may be a little long, so just skip it if you want. First of all, it was owned by a race car driver and my experience with their interest or knowledge of "their" coaches has not been good. They rarely drive the coaches themself and the drivers they use, for the most part, aren't knowledgeable and aren't held financially responsible for their actions or lack of thereof. Cosmetically this coach looks very nice and is relatively clean. The few areas where trim is loose is minor stuff as is the damage on the rear door side exterior. The areas of concern, which will keep my bids low include the fact that although this is a large repo Company, they are a little out of their element when it comes to presenting a high end coach. It is parked inside in such a way that the slides can not be operated nor can you open the gen comp. The engine door is blocked by the ball on the reese hitch which is locked on with a rusty lock, so we could open the door only far enough to look in and see a filthy engine with the chrome parts looking like they have never been taken care of, the same way it looked when looking in from the side door. The exterior wall by the bedroom slide appears to be bowed out at the bottom corner? Couldn't figure this one out. The large molding over the tires is coming off. The tires show uneven wear and the batteries (replaced in 06) are heavily corroded. There is no oil in the front axle seals and the front of the coach is covered with protective tape which needs to be replaced as does the Pass side windshield. They would not allow us to start the coach or the generator and since it is not plugged in, although they have a 50amp outlet, but not enough cord, we couldn't check any of the 110 system. Although the inverter had enough power to light the microwave, none of the 12v system worked although the disconnect and master switches were on. The Coach leans quite a bit to the Dr side so we really couldn't get underneath to check. There are oil stains on the concrete, but who knows what that came from. When asked about the intermittent power failure on acceleration, we were told it only happened a few times in the 200+ miles driven to its present location and the check engine light was on all the time. It may be just a matter of some TLC and 20-30 grand to bring it to Newell standards, but, at this point, there are too many unknowns for my money. Hopes this helps any who might be interested.

[chockwald]

Tom, you are a scream....LOL!!!!! From your perspective, I think this could be a real "get" for the confident do-it-yourselfer!

Right now the bidding is in the mid $70,000's....if this can be gotten for under $100,000 (it's got 4 days to go, so who knows?) it would be a great deal, but only if you have Tom on retainer....lol. Seriously, if you are willing to do a lot of the work like Richard, Tom and Dean this could be the steal of a lifetime.......No, Steve, I still love my 1982, and have no thoughts of leaving the Classic ranks!

[jwe648]

Tom,

You have a point! As you & I know if "Man Built It", it can be repaired! Take for example the 74' which is a growing project.. I now have ripped out most of the bedroom floor and walls.. but this weekend it starts back! My bucket of bolts is growing.. We'll compare when I'm done! Here is a good one.. Newell had in stock window glass channel for the ole' 74.. I bought it all.. This was really good news to me! So if one has a little "Time" the results may be rewarding!

Jimmy

[encantotom]

very cool that larry went to go see it. he has very valid concerns.

none of that scares me when the price is right.

it will be interesting to see what it goes for.

tom

[Wally Arntzen]

If I had the money and a place to work on it I'd jump right on it for the right price.
I suspect that it could be put in pristine condition for less than $25,000.00. If no problems with the engine or tranny $15,000.00 or less. It is an opportunity for someone with the guts and gusto to get at it.
Soon the person that gets will probably be on this website getting help from all of us that have worked on them for several years.

[prairieschooner]

Clarke,
I was waiting.

[greatriver]

As of this morning the reserve had not been met with a $80,000 plus bid so this could be a huge factor. It's sort of sad to see a nice coach in such a state of disrepair. It's hard to imagine someone trying to sell this coach with a reserve above $80,000.00 and not allow a bidder to even start the engine, examine it or operate the basic systems.

[tuga]

When a seller won't allow a buyer to start the engine, that is an automatic bad deal in my book! I would never buy a coach unless I could have the codes run on the engine and transmission.

Cavet emptor!

[larryweikart]

My sentiments exactly! Maybe nothing amiss but if they really want to get top $$ they would provide a complete readout to any potential buyers. It could certainly ease the mind. Best wishes to all forum members for a joyous Holiday Season and wonderful travels in 2010! If any of you find yourself attending an ALMS race in 2010, Vanessa's Hospitality invites you to come to our hospitality area and introduce yourself. We will treat you to a nice meal.

[chockwald]

Looks like the Newell closed at $100,050, but under the reserve limit. I really think that paying anything over $100,000 is a real risk without knowing what the problems are. If anything, the bank should want to know what the error codes are, and any other issues that may affect the selling price. Seems to me that full disclosure might result in a sale closer to what the bank wants. Leaving people guessing gets "no sale"....

[prairieschooner]

This is most likely the decision of the Agent selling the Coach and not the Bank although I cannot be sure.
I have been involved with numerous Bank Owned Sales in Boats. The Broker always says that this is an "as is sale" but it is always subject to a Survey of the vessel. The Bid is put on the vessel with Good Faith and then I came in to do the Survey. I know of at least two instances that the Sale Price was Reduced because of Deficiencies with the Vessel, these Sales both worked out to the advantage of the Buyer because the items were "hidden" until the vessel was Surveyed.

[encantotom]

even though i would not have been scared to buy this coach with the problems noted, i would have been scared at over 100k.

i suspect we will see this coach again.

very interesting and silly approach to selling this rig.

tom