Solar Panels

[jmacstack]

Hello, I am wondering if any of you have installed solar panels? I am thinking that will be the next upgrade I want to make. I have 6, 75 amp, 228AH @20 hr for my house batteries and 2 8D for my starters. Is it possible to add enough solar panels to charge these batteries? Does anyone have any recommendations for a good company to consult with? Thanks, Jennifer

[prairieschooner]

We have 3 panels from an earlier owner. When we got the coach the regulator was out so after some research I chose the Solar Boost 2000E;
http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/solar_boost_2000e/

I have been very happy with the performance. A good benefit of this regulator is the Digital Volt Meter. This helps me monitor my Battery usage. When Dry-Camping the Solar Panels can keep up with our Lighting needs (after most being changed to LED) and even a little TV time.

I would advise you to look into being able to lift one side of the Panels so that you can aim them. Hopefully Brad Townsend will hop in here. Brad and Karen spent last winter Dry-Camping at Senators Wash, AZ. They will be a great resource for what really works.

[fulltiming]

Jennifer, your use of the coach will determine the practicality of solar panels. Typically solar panels work best for those who are willing to really control their use of power, especially 120 volt power. Solar panels are great for keeping batteries charged up when a coach isn't being used and shore power isn't available. For maintaining life off the grid, using the generator is typically a less expensive and more satisfactory alternative. Typically running the generator a couple of times a day for 3-4 hours, especially while you are running any high electrical consumption devices will allow you to stay off grid until you are about to run out of diesel.

If you are in a situation where you don't want the noise or bother of running the generator, you must either be very frugle in your power usage or virtually cover the top of your coach with solar panels (I've seen that done). A 27"x59" Kyocera solar panel will produce up to 135 watts and a 39" x 59" that will produce up to 210 watts (remember that clouds and angle of the sun in relation to the panel can greatly reduce those numbers). That's not much AC power by the time it has to go through the inverter.

So, for some uses solar is great. It is expensive on a per KW basis.

[Bill & Sonja]

Hi Jennifer, this is our second coach with solar panels. The first had one 110W panel which served our needs well for lights and several hours of TV/vcr flickering away a day. We ran the generator for making coffee and microwave use several times a day perhaps totalling 1 hr per day. That system charged 4 - 6V golf car batteries and we never ran short of power unless the weather closed in and there was no sun. That was an older vintage panel and when we were located in the same place for some time I tilted the panel to maximize 90 degree sun exposure.
On our present coach we have 2 - 130W Sharp panels, and thanks to this forum the Blue Sky Boost controller. These have served us very well. They are charging 2 8D's (labeled deep cycle). During the winter we would typically dry camp on the desert 10 to 14 days between trips to civilization and hook ups.
We used lights, TV/satellite (4 - 6 hours) and charged our laptop and phone. We ran the generator about and hour a day to make coffee, use the microwave and add to the charge. The vendor of these panels was emphatic that the newer panels do not need to be tipped as they have the ability to gather the sun more effectively than previous panels. I have not tipped them. We would not go without panels for our type of camping. We bought this set up in Canada and as I looked around Quartzsite and Yuma I saw much better prices. SolarBill.com may have some useful information.

[busnut]

If you have the Amana Refrigerator forget it. We have 500 watts of solar and it is a waste of money. Even with all those solar panels we need at least 2 hours of charging at 125 amps to keep up the the refrigerator. If you have an RV refigerator that you can run on gas it can work.

[jwe648]

This is a link that will help you figure on how much is enough..

http://www.rvsolarelectric.com/index.php?route=directory/directory&directory_id=3

I have six 8D batteries that run off my 2000 w/inverter.. I run a household fridge overnight along with the tv and some 12 & 110v lighting.. i need to recharge by the next am just after coffee.. I figured I would need a rooftop full of panels to avoid runnig the gen....

[prairieschooner]

Our '82 has the Electric/LPG Refrigerator and our Solar Panels work great. When we go to the State Parks here in CA we are Dry-Camping. Without the Solar Panels we would be living with an Ice Chest. Even when Dry-Camping I use the Norcold in the Bay for our Drinks and other items that one would get in and out of the Frig for, we try to use only the Lights that have been converted to LED and really only run the AC Generator so that we can watch TV a little. I usually run the AC Generator for about an Hour in the evening while watching the TV for the News, run the Air Conditioning and Topping off the Batteries.

[Brad Townsend]

Hi jennifer
Would have responded earlier but we have had little web access over the summer.
This topic is a complex and depending on ones knowledge can be very complicated. I am by no means an expert but have found that you need to be your own advocate with proper knowledge of the workings of off grid systems. By that I mean you need to gather some books and web sites and start to learn as much as possible and when it becomes over bearing take a break then get back into it. Proper understanding will save money and make your life more comfortable.

Fist thing is what lifestyle is it you will be doing to benefit from solar panels and where is it you will be when using them the most. For instance here where we are now in NH it would not be prudent to invest in a pricey system for the purpose of boon-docking (dry camping).
Nor would it be in the north west because there just is not enough solar hours per day.

We spend the winter boon-docking outside of Yuma AZ, one of the best places in the country for sun and this is where we count on our system to provide the majority of our electrical needs.

We have 2 panels totaling 270 watts and we also have an air x wind turbine that puts out 400 watts in a 29 mph wind. There is wind in the desert. We really need to double our panel array and probably will in the future but for now with great power management we get by from day to day in the desert by running the generator for an hour in the morning and maybe an hour in the evening to supplement. Understanding batteries is a big item. The debate on which type goes on but for us we use the AGM's by life line for these reasons:
They are CLEAN and stay CLEAN no having to be concerned about acid messes which will happen especially if and when you equalize them as you should from time to time. Also they recharge quicker, think about it, quicker recharge time means less sun time needed and less generator run time needed, (fuel savings!) they also will not drain down as quick.
All batteries will lose efficiency in cold weather by as much as 50 percent depending on how cold is cold. This needs to be considered when calculating battery bank size. We have 2 AGM's for the house and 2 AGM's for the chassi. Both sets of batteries were purchased within 6 months of each other which is a safe time to use together. I have the option to merge both banks if I want to double my battery bank BUT if I take power from both sides I need to know it will take more time to refill from eithe the sun or wind or genny.

you should start by figuring your total 24 hr usage. As batteries are rated in amp hrs I convert everything to amp hrs. We pull apx 21 amp per hr in the evening in the desert.
Your total need will tell you your total battery bank size but you may want to add a little more to make up for the not so sunny days and cold weather. Also figure using 50% less than wht the battery is rated at and you will double your battery life. Example: my 2 house batteries are rated at 225 amp hrs each which totals 450 amp hrs. I figure a safe level to pull them down to is half that before they need to be recharged to full and not partially full they need to be fully recharged before putting a load on them again.

A very useful item for monitoring batteries which I highly recommend to anyone that wants to know just where there batteries are is a battery monitor such as a trimetric battery monitor. http://www.bogartengineering.com/
This after properly installed will tell just how many amp hrs you have used and how many amp hrs are left for use. It also lets you see the ACTUAL voltage. I say actual voltage because as I have a blue sky charge controller which I like but as with all controllers they are measuring the surface voltage and not what is actually in the battery, this is where folks can get into trouble because the monitor reads higher than what actually is, that is until the sun goes down and the panels no longer put out then the monitor and charger read the same.

Now the size of your battery bank and end usage daily will tell you what your panel aray size should be and if it requires a to expensive size then you need to make up the deficit in other ways, for us the genny. I can't stress enough the importance of this battery monitor. it also can monitor total amp hrs on a set of batteries over the life of the batteries.

Once you are ready for panels you need to know proper wire size. Some folks with large solar arays go to a 24 volt system which means they can get by with smaller wire. Copper = $$, Higher voltage is more efficient something to learn about. Don't worry the 24 volts gets changed back to 12 volts at the charge controller before it goes to the batteries.

Now you have the panels and wire you need a proper charge controller but my mistake here with lack of knowledge is I did not allow for expansion. My Blue sky controller is a 25 amp max controller, if I want to double my aray I also need to get a larger controller. A larger controller in the beginning would have saved me more now. Plus larger controllers also have other features that could be useful via what is called a version load control, more to learn about.

So now you have a proper sized Battery bank and solar aray to refill the batteries and wire size and charge controller and hopefully a battery monitor. Learn as much about batteries as you can call the manufacturer and get answers from them. i learned that the lifeline will safely take a 15 volt spike which happens with the airx wind turbine as I have cranked it up to put out more because wind is not a constant. The life line are pricy but after 4 yrs they are still very clean and if something happens to me my wife does not have to worry about the maintenance that flood acid requires plus ther is enough other stuff to keep me busy and have been enjoying not having to deal with the flood acid stuff. I did have them for the house side when I purchased the coach and they made a mess and stained the area they were in. Learning just what makes a battery different form others are helpful. Learn about the plate thickness difference in various batteries and the chemicals used. Newell uses these batteries for a reason. But depending on your usage just the recharge rate will add up to savings.
Remember, do not mix different type batteries nor batteries that are over 6 months of each other preferably less, this will just cause a bad situation which can be costly and possibly do damage

That should give you a start. I have found that most small dealers only know enough to get you confused and in trouble. My first mistake was with Solar Bill in Quartzsite AZ, he has or had good stuff at a good price but his knowledge was lacking, as I asked questions he walked away. Buyer beware.

Brad

[jmacstack]

Brad, Thanks for all the great info! I have pretty much abandoned the Solar panel idea. I'm still having battery issues which Western States Cat is helping me address. Until I can get to the bottom of that issue I won't be going solar. I use the coach only in the summer. I drive it across country to Northern NH where I grew up and still have a home. Where are you in NH? I will catalogue your answer as well as everyone else's for future reference. Thanks again! Jennifer

[Brad Townsend]

Currently we are at Dolly Copp campground in Gorham working for the USFS.

Brad