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rheavn
11-27-2011, 06:21 PM
A while back some one posted about a better quality "battery merge solenoid" that should last longer than the one year that Newell advises with the Cole Hearse 24106. I can't find the post. Any one else remember?

encantotom
11-27-2011, 06:58 PM
i remember it but couldnt find it either.

tom

Ron Skeen
11-27-2011, 07:56 PM
NEW SOLENOID AMETEK 15-132 SAS4202 for Prestolite Motors
eBay My World: 4vette( 258)
I recommend this person she was very prompt in shipping and I bought 4 from her and have installed 2 with 2 spares. They are listed on Ebay now.

RussWhite
11-27-2011, 08:12 PM
The Ametek model suggested is rated 100 amps continuous with copper contacts, and the Cole Hearse 24106 is rated 85 amps continuous with copper contacts.
Russ

Ron Skeen
11-27-2011, 08:37 PM
You can go to this site http://texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp and it has a good discription of all the solenoids. I have email Evette to find out which she has and will post when she answer.

15-133
SAS-4202
Continuous Duty Rating 200 Amp
SAS4202 / 15-108

15-132
SAS-4201
Continuous Duty Rating 100 Amp
Prestolite SAS4201

rheavn
11-28-2011, 12:46 AM
Thanks Ron,
I'm trying to evaluate whether replacing with the 15-133/200 amp solenoid for a few bucks more would be money well spent. Opinions....................

larryweikart
11-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Is there a potential problem with the battery merge solenoid? As far as I know I still have the "original" in my 94 and it appears to be working properly!

encantotom
11-28-2011, 01:58 PM
they just wear out. if they do, then you could have problems. newell suggests changing every year, but on mine so far i changed it and kept a spare.

tom

RussWhite
11-28-2011, 02:12 PM
I bought my '99 in Phoneix from a previous owner than didn't even drive it. Many questions went unanswered, so I stopped at the factorty on the way east. I had them do a walk through with me just as if they were selling me the coach. Answered all my questions and I learned a bunch.
When we got to the electrical panel with the merge solenoid he looked at it and said it looked original and then quipped, "bet it doesn't work". He was right! I really find very few occasions when I need to have it in use so I am thinking I will get several years of service before it needs replacing.
Russ

rheavn
11-29-2011, 12:05 AM
After listening to your opinions & reading about both the Cole Hersee & Ametek solenoids I decided to just replace with the Cole Hersee and carry a spare. Even Ametek advises replacing their solenoid annually.

GORDON HUMMEL
11-29-2011, 01:03 PM
Based on previous information on this forum, I was under the impression that the merge solonoid was activated when the engine key was in the on position.
I also replaced mine some years ago based on info from this board & also carry a spare.

Tom
On your pictures of the rear elcetrical panel(s), I see a blue heatsink with battery cables attached. Is that a battery isolator ?

RussWhite
11-29-2011, 01:51 PM
Recoginizing there are many differences between individual Newells all I can add is my merge solenoid does not energize with the ignition key.
Russ

GORDON HUMMEL
11-29-2011, 09:15 PM
Russ
I suspect Newell changed the merge solonoid usage somewhere between 1995 & 1999. Given there were many failures & with a MTBF < a year, a fix was required.

How do your house batteries get charged from the engine? Do you have a battery isolator?

RussWhite
11-29-2011, 09:26 PM
Yes, the battery isolator input is from the alternator output, and its outputs are separate and one to the chassis batteries and the other to the coach batteries. Simple and seemingly bullet proof.
Russ

encantotom
11-30-2011, 12:31 AM
hi gordon, yea that is a batter isolater.

tom

Brad Townsend
11-30-2011, 10:49 AM
On my coach: When plugged in to shore power I leave the battery merge switch on. The shore power only charges the house batteries I have confirmed this by checking the voltage with a meter, when I plug in only the house batteries show a charge taking place. I find this also keeps both sets of batteries at the same level which is useful for boondocking when I can also merge the batteries for double the usable capacity but if this is done one must also make sure they have the ability to fully recharge both house and chassis batteries. This could be taken into consideration when outfitting solar panels for dry camping (bondocking).
I think that using the merge switch in this manner could make it last longer not sure but years ago I was told by an industrial electrician that things with electrical contacts are best left on than switching on and off. This was in reference to a large boring mill where I would have problems with the starting relays. After leaving the main power on I never had a problem again.
I was reminded about light bulbs, when do they blow out usually when they are turned on. The stress of on and off on the element weakens it to the point of failure.

You could check the voltage of your batteries before plugging in to confirm if this is the same on your coach.
Thats what I do with my rig.
Brad

encantotom
11-30-2011, 02:22 PM
gordon, it is a surepower 2402 battery isolator

tom

tuga
04-08-2012, 02:11 PM
My battery merge solenoid feels warm to the touch. Does that mean that it is working? It would seem that if it is warm there is electricity flowing thru it. In the 6 years that I have owned the coach, I have never changed it.

I keep it in the up (on) position while plugged into shorepower. Actually, I keep it on all of the time; except when I am dry camping then I turn it off (middle) position. I do this in order to keep from running down the engine batteries. If I understand the way it is supposed to work: when dry camping and the batt merge OFF you are running appliances off of the house batteries (6) and not drawing any juice from the engine batteries (2). This is done so you can start the engine and use the alternator to charge up the house batteries enough to start the generator. Am I understanding this correctly?

RussWhite
04-08-2012, 02:23 PM
Hi Tuga,

No, that does not mean for sure your merge solenoid is working. What it means is that the coil portion is drawing current and you feel the result of that with the warmth. The coil ( solenoid ) makes a magnetic field that pulls the armature and closes the contacts in the relay. Just because there is current and a magnetic field does not necessarily mean the contacts were closed or that if they were, they are good undamaged clean contacts. Here is a better way to determine if your merge relay is working.

Get you digital voltmeter and check the voltage across the two big terminals with the merge relay on ( your normal configuration ). A very low voltage in the range of .1V or less is good. Then turn the merge relayy off ( your dry camping position ) and allow some time to pass - a few hours. Then again measure the voltage across the big terminals with your DC meter and it should be considerably higher than it was before, indicating the contacts have opened and you are seeing the difference between your chassis and house batteries.

Let us know what you find.

Russ

tuga
04-08-2012, 03:03 PM
Thanks Russ,

I'll try it tomorrow when I have time.

Are you still in the Florida Keys?

RussWhite
04-08-2012, 04:15 PM
Tuga,

Yes, one more month in the beautiful Florida Keys, then a quick run to Tennessee to reconfigure for our trip West, then look out we are going to be on the move for a while.
Russ

folivier
04-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Safe travels Russ, hope we can meet up somewhere. We'll be in Arizona through May then home for summer.

Brad Townsend
04-08-2012, 11:37 PM
I have a feeling all is well with your solenoid. The best thing you can do is leave it on while plugged into shore power that way you get both banks charged. I have been told by an industrial engineer that it is best to leave things like this on, it is the on and off that weakens it similar to incadesent bulbs which would last longer if just left on. I sometimes merge my batteries here in the desert just to keep them up and close to the house batteries. Both banks are the same type and age so this is a good thing. My opinion! It wouldn't hurt to check the difference of voltage on either side as recommended by Russ.

Brad

tuga
04-09-2012, 10:19 PM
Hi Tuga,

No, that does not mean for sure your merge solenoid is working. What it means is that the coil portion is drawing current and you feel the result of that with the warmth. The coil ( solenoid ) makes a magnetic field that pulls the armature and closes the contacts in the relay. Just because there is current and a magnetic field does not necessarily mean the contacts were closed or that if they were, they are good undamaged clean contacts. Here is a better way to determine if your merge relay is working.

Get you digital voltmeter and check the voltage across the two big terminals with the merge relay on ( your normal configuration ). A very low voltage in the range of .1V or less is good. Then turn the merge relayy off ( your dry camping position ) and allow some time to pass - a few hours. Then again measure the voltage across the big terminals with your DC meter and it should be considerably higher than it was before, indicating the contacts have opened and you are seeing the difference between your chassis and house batteries.

Let us know what you find.

Russ

Russ,

I tested the DC voltage with Batt Merge switch on and it read: .1v DC

I turned the Batt Merge switch off and waited 3 hours; it read: .1v to 2v. DC

So I would assume that my Batt Merge solenoid is bad.

tuga
04-10-2012, 01:09 AM
I just changed my time zone in my profile to Central Time Zone; hopefully, this post will stay on the NEW post list for more than a few hours.

How can anyone answer a post if it goes off of the NEW POST list after a couple of hours?

RussWhite
04-10-2012, 01:16 AM
Russ,

I tested the DC voltage with Batt Merge switch on and it read: .1v DC

I turned the Batt Merge switch off and waited 3 hours; it read: .1v to 2v. DC


Tuga - looks to me like you met the criteria I mentioned for a good switch, not bad. Recapping, .1V or less when closed, and that is what you had, and greater than that when open, which 2 volts is certainly there. So, looks good to me. Am I missing something?
Russ
So I would assume that my Batt Merge solenoid is bad.

tuga
04-10-2012, 01:22 AM
Russ,

I tested the DC voltage with Batt Merge switch on and it read: .1v DC

I turned the Batt Merge switch off and waited 3 hours; it read: .1v to 2v. DC


Tuga - looks to me like you met the criteria I mentioned for a good switch, not bad. Recapping, .1V or less when closed, and that is what you had, and greater than that when open, which 2 volts is certainly there. So, looks good to me. Am I missing something?
Russ
So I would assume that my Batt Merge solenoid is bad.


Sorry Russ, it was .2v DC - I typed 2v. DC incorrectly. The voltage reading was about the same with the switch off as it was with the switch on.

So that is why I assumed the Batt Merge solenoid is bad, am I correct?

RussWhite
04-10-2012, 01:32 AM
Tuga,

Well I would have expected a larger difference with the relay open, mine certainly is greater - more like 1 volt. It does raise the possibility your contacts are welded together and not opening when the realy is de-energized. All things considered, I think I would change it.
Russ

tuga
04-10-2012, 02:00 AM
Russ,

I am just going to change it. I suppose that if I remove it and bring it to an automotive or truck parts supply house they can sell me a new one. Mine has 12V / 203 written on it. Maybe I will see more numbers when I remove it completely.

The most difficult thing to do will probably be to turn off the 12V to the solenoid; I'll start with the silver on/off switches that are supposed to turn off 12V house batteries.

Thanks for your help.

RussWhite
04-10-2012, 02:15 AM
Ron provided this link:
http://texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp

and the following suggestions earlier in this thread.

15-133
SAS-4202
Continuous Duty Rating 200 Amp
SAS4202 / 15-108

15-132
SAS-4201
Continuous Duty Rating 100 Amp
Prestolite SAS4201

Be very careful doing this job. You will be working with a potentially dangerous amount of fault current if you do not get both sets of batteries isolated. Do not trust the disconnect switch until you have tested it, or better yet, just disconnect cables yourself carefully so you know the batteries are isolated before starting the job.

Russ

Bikestuff
04-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Tuga,

I think I met a friend of yours at the Newell. He called himself "El Deeko". He bought a super-cool '09. I am jealous!

Anyway, if you have not read this thread, it may help in thinking about the disconnect switches. I was shocked to find out that they disconnect only the ground....and that on some coaches (mine)...they don't disconnect all the grounds.

http://newellclassic.com/forum/showthread.php?2198-Battery-Disconnects&p=14849&mode=linear&highlight=disconnect#post14849

Good luck!

Cheers,
bill

tuga
04-10-2012, 02:34 PM
Bill,

I do have a friend who just bought an 09 Newell from Newell Coach. He bought #1272 which is a bunk bed coach with murphy bed and beautiful interior colors. Did the fellow you met buy a bunk bed coach?

I have experienced the disconnect switches not disconnecting all of the grounds on my coach when I was testing the inverter. Ron, an electrician with Newell told me to disconnect the positive lead coming from the batteries in order to stop 12v going to the inverter. This was done in order to "reset" the inverter; it didn't work and we discovered that a 300 amp fuse had blown.

Thanks for the heads up on the disconnect switches.