leveling valve cleanup

[encantotom]

i took all 6 rear manifold leveling solenoids off toady. i cleaned up the manifold, cleaned each valve, greased up and put new inner and outer o rings on and re-installed them.

hey, and they didnt even leak afterwards.

i need to try the front ones, but didnt have time today.

[tuga]

I did the same thing but did the front and the back. I have been having the front sit down for about the last 6 months and I have just decided that I want it fixed. Changing the O rings didn't help with the air leaks.

After doing all of the usual soapy water spraying and not finding any air leaks I have resigned myself to the fact that I need to install 2 new leveling valves in the front manifold. Question is: Do I replace the DOWN solenoids (driver side and passenger side) or do I replace the UP solenoids.

Since the coach leaks down in the front completely in 12 hours, my guess is to do the DOWN solenoids.

What does the brain trust think on this matter?

[RussWhite]

Tuga,

I was under the impression that the elastic material of the valve seat was what failed. I think Richard has some great posts regarding testing and how he learned to replace the seat and stop the leaking. Fortunately I have not had to deal with leaks at the manifold so far.
I think it is reasonable to start with the DOWN solenoids. If the UP leaked you would have at least the pressure of your auxiliary air in the bags. If the TRAVEL leaked the Height Valve should shutoff and stop flow when the coach reached travel position and not go all the way down.
I suspect we all may have slightly different valves that add to the confusion. I have attached a few images to get a discussion going. One shows a spare 6 valve manifold I picked up from eBay for a good price thinking it would be very similar to mine. The schematic was posted on the forum some time ago and I just added some arrows to remind me which way the air may flow. Good luck.

[Jack Fouts]

I have a similar manifold I bought. HWH said those are functionally equivalent solenoids. They draw a little more current but have everything else the same. They only used them for a year or two but they are fine to use.

[tuga]

Tuga,

I was under the impression that the elastic material of the valve seat was what failed. I think Richard has some great posts regarding testing and how he learned to replace the seat and stop the leaking. Fortunately I have not had to deal with leaks at the manifold so far.
I think it is reasonable to start with the DOWN solenoids. If the UP leaked you would have at least the pressure of your auxiliary air in the bags. If the TRAVEL leaked the Height Valve should shutoff and stop flow when the coach reached travel position and not go all the way down.
I suspect we all may have slightly different valves that add to the confusion. I have attached a few images to get a discussion going. One shows a spare 6 valve manifold I picked up from eBay for a good price thinking it would be very similar to mine. The schematic was posted on the forum some time ago and I just added some arrows to remind me which way the air may flow. Good luck.

Russ,

Thanks for posting the pictures and a good explanation of how each solenoid works.

I am excited and looking forward to changing the DOWN solenoids to see if that fixes the problem (I think it will).

[Richard and Rhonda]

This has me thinking on how to tell if up or down solenoids are leaking. If down solenoids, then you could put soapy water on the open holes on back of the manifold. If the up solenoids, you could bleed the coach air pressure down, unscrew the air supply line to manifold and plug the manifold. If the ups are leaking then this would keep the air in manifold.

[encantotom]

richard, if it was a leak that was sagging over a day or so, do you think you would see bubbles on the back of the manifold? i'm scratching my head...

i have the drivers side drooping over a day or so and i have not been able to detect any leaks anywhere on it...

but....if it was the up and it was bleeding back over to the coach air, and my brake air is leaking slowly (still working on it), then the brakes would bleed the coach air down and the air from the up solenoids leaking through the seal would just leak out as the coach air went down...

i think i will just swap out the up rear solenoid and see what it does.... im in over my head here....

[tuga]

Well we changed the front 2 down solenoids today so we'll see if that did it tomorrow morning!

We also changed one of the petcocks on the brake air tanks in the front. Next we fixed a coupling that was leaking and replaced it. Then we found the most unusual air leak I have ever seen. On the s.s. braided hose that runs from the S60 air compressor to spin on air filter we found a leak right in the middle of the hose. It was a straight section of hose that had the air leak. Damnest thing I have ever seen.

When looking for air leaks, its not always at the fittings.

[Ron Skeen]

I also had to replace the s.s. hose on my 96 and it was leaking about a foot from where it ties into the dryer. Also check the 3/4 line that feed the air bags. This can cause the drop of the conner.

[NewellCrazy]

Ron,

Where did you buy the S.S. hose? From Detroit Diesel or just from a local shop that makes s.s. hoses to order.

Also, are there check valves that prevent all of the air in the system from being exhausted when you disconnect the S.S. braided hose?

[Ron Skeen]

Sean,

I had the hose made at a local hydraulic shop. Just take if off and they can make a replacement. I always just bleed all the air out of the system before I start. They are check valves for the two brake tanks. Just bleed the supply tank.


Tuga,

How did the solenoids replacement work?

[Jack Fouts]

My drivers side rear had been going down over a day or so. so this thread inspired me to try replacing a solenoid. Following everyones logic I changed just the rear UP solenoid. that was Sunday afternoon and quite a few hours later, it is looking like it is staying up. Another day or so will tell for sure.

Tuga, did yours stay up?

[tuga]

Jack, yes it stayed up and I changed both DOWN solenoids in the front. Go figure!

[tuga]

Well another day another air leak or maybe the same air leak!

This morning my coach was down in front! I called Newell and Creslie told me that changing the down solenoids almost always corrects the problem. He suggested checking where the exhaust air comes out of the manifold for an air leak. I asked him if it could be the UP solenoid and he said that usually when the UP fails you can not raise the coach at that point. Looks like Tom's air leak was fixed by changing the UP solenoid; so I guess my next step will be to order 2 more solenoids and change the UP solenoids.

I need to add something here: my air supply drains down completely to zero overnight. Is there a check valve that prevents the air from the HWH manifold from leaking down when the supply air leaks down?

Maybe I have 2 problems: one was the down solenoids and the second one was somewhere in the air supply.

[RussWhite]

Tuga,

Here is a link to a thread by Richard and Rhonda that discusses why these valves leak and how to fix them without the cost of replacing the entire solenoid and valve operator. It makes a lot of sense. Maybe you would want to use his suggestions and repair the valve seats you remove and have them ready as spares for the next leak.

http://newellclassic.com/forum/showthread.php?964-Leveling-Valves-Science-Project&highlight=valve+seat

Russ

[tuga]

Thanks Russ, I spoke to Richard the other day and I am planning to send him my valves to be reconditioned.

This may be a silly question but: Are the DOWN solenoids in the middle of the manifold?
Are the UP solenoids on the left of the manifold?
Are the TRAVEL solenoids on the right of the manifold?

[tuga]

I ordered a new speed controller from Newell this morning because mine was leaking air. For those of you who don't know what a speed controller is it is a brass adjustable valve that controls the speed that opens/closes your sewer dump valve. Hopefully fixing this leak and replacing the s.s. braided air hose will take care of my leaks for a while.

[RussWhite]

This may be a silly question but: Are the DOWN solenoids in the middle of the manifold?
Are the UP solenoids on the left of the manifold?
Are the TRAVEL solenoids on the right of the manifold?

Tuga,

Please see the images included with post #3 of this thread. It shows the location of the solenoids on my rear six pack.
Russ

[NewellCrazy]

If you are "leaking" air out of the speed control muffler, I am almost totally positive that you will have the same issue when you replace it. Usually it means that air is leaking around the seals on the air cylinder for the air operated sewer valve from Dupree that it is controlling. You will have two of them. One for up and down of the cylinder. Since, they are only five bucks so it is easy to try and I look forward to you telling me I was wrong.

Fortunately you can get cylinder rebuild kits for the cylinders (I and quite a few others have done it). From Dupree Products

I had the same thing on the air slide cylinder for the bay freezer/fridge and i rebuilt the cylinder with a seal kit from SMC.

I raised my rig up today and leveled it and then turned off the HWH System.

I measured the height at all four corners and will keep measuring over the next couple of days to see if mine is fixed or not.

[encantotom]

tuga, on mine the UP is on the left, DOWN in the middle and TRAVEL on the right. drivers side on the top and passenger on the bottom.

tom

[encantotom]

i checked the height at the 4 corners of the coach at 1pm and at 9pm tonite they were all the same so it had not moved at all.

so at least with mine, the one solenoid i changed did fix it. however, it is only 9 hours so i will check it for a day or two.

tom

[tuga]

Russ & Tom,

I remember seeing #3 post on this thread; I just thought mine might be different.

I feel air coming out of the black manifold that the speed control adjustable valves are screwed into. Is the re-build kit for this black plastic manifold?

[tuga]

Well, we got the air leak in speed control stopped. Francis removed the brass speed control; he turned the slotted screw shaft clockwise until it stopped. He felt a little grit inside the control while he was turning it. When we put it back in the housing NO MORE LEAKS!

I have 2 new speed control valves ordered and I will replace them when they arrive.

We also changed the s.s. braided hose from the s60 compressor to the spin on air filter (it had a major leak).

Hopefully, the front of the coach won't lose air overnight.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Tuga,

I think you are going to find that either the solenoid valve in the manifold is leaking or the manifold is cracked. The speed control valve that you mention can only leak air if the solenoid is leaking.

[tuga]

Richard,

I received a new solenoid today and will put it in the sewer valve control. I also ordered a air cylinder repair kit from Dupree Products to re-built the air cylinder.

I also ordered 2 air bags from Newell $249 each; Firestone W01-358-8087. They had 1 in stock but had to order the other one. I checked around the internet and called about 6 places; no one had the air bags in stock. They had them in their computer and quoted prices (which were more than Newell) but did not have them in stock.

Well, this has been an interesting ride finding these air leaks - we found about 6 and fixed them but the air bags are the real culprit (I think!)

Thanks for everybody's help.

[smagown]

My coach has been sagging on the the R rear to the point of re-grooving my drive tire. I just completed my barn/shop and put the coach up on my Gray MFG 25 ton jack stands with my Grey MFG 25 ton jack. I could not find a leak. Raising with the HWH would hold so I knew the bags were good.With the key in the run position I could hear air at the manifold in the engine bay and figured it was a bad solenoid. I soaped everything and had some slow leaks. Tom sent me the o-rings for my solenoids. Before I pulled them I tested each one with 12v. They all clicked except the L rear raise. I had ordered two from Newell (price increase $128 each).The coach was now holding on the R rear after replacing all the o-rings but was two inches higher on the L rear. I replaced the L rear raise solenoid. I then set my ride height at all four corners and am ready to head to "Dega!
Thanks,

[tuga]

Steve,

I know that "Dega" is a big place, but my son-in-law and daughter are there now . They are in turn 4; Geico Frontrunners Club 1 space #511. If you are close by there I'm sure they would enjoy meeting you. My coach is a 1999 Newell white w/black, silver, and gold accents.

Where will you be parked?

[smagown]

Tuga:
I'll be in the Family campground in Turn 1, California Blvd #13, on the big drainage dish.
Thanks,

[tuga]

Well Francis and I tore into the p/s sewer valve air leak today and here's what we found.

We installed a new solenoid and that didn't fix the problem.

We installed a new speed control valve and that didn't fix the problem.

So we removed the entire housing and checked the O rings inside where the plunger is located. Bingo! The O rings were in fair condition, but the major problem was the plunger was covered with goop and it wasn't moving at all. This is why the air was leaking out - the plunger was not moving completely in the housing and it was allowing air to escape thru the speed control valve.

After we installed the new air control manifold it opened and closed perfectly.

So now we have found and fixed a 6th air leak.

Tomorrow the new front air bags will be installed (they are leaking and are 14 years old). So that will be a 7th and 8th air leak that we found. By the way, Newell's price on these bags were spot on ($249 each) and they were the only one that had them in STOCK!

[NewellCrazy]

Glad you got everything fixed. I suspected it would be the cylinder itself. That is what it was on mine and it makes sense when you know how they work with the manifold.