Tech Talk Archives 15

[Neweller]

Q
1933 2/7/2006 1:17:24 PM 2/11/2006 Andre Ducote ducoteandre@aol.com Newell Parts support We just started looking at Newells. Currently have a 1999 Prevost Royale. One big question I have is about parts support. An example is, I am currently having to trouble shoot and fix an AquaHot problem and I am talking to and buying parts directly from the mfgr. Does Newell stock and sell parts for things like the Aquahot, generator and other more or less permantly installed items? What I am looking for is a 1 stop tech support / parts order. Of course I am talking about 4 to 8 year old coaches. Doing the work is not the issue, just getting good support to figuire out the problem and get the parts needed to fix it.

Thanks
Andre

[Neweller]

Q
1936 2/10/2006 12:56:48 PM 2/11/2006 Jon Kabbe jonlt@charter.net 12.5 Kw Genset Many thanks to the Newell staff for forwarding me the wiring diagrams. I figured out the necessary electrical circuits to control Perkins "flame thrower" intake heating system. Then I faced to problem of getting at the electrical control box mounted on the aft end of the engine. Looked like access would be a knuckle buster so I considered alternatives. I've decided on a different tack. I'm going to tee off the intake pipe just below the air filter and run the new branch forward to the side of the radiator and cap it with a removeable plug. Then in cold weather if the Perkins doesn't start right away I'll get a propane torch out, remove the cap, have my wife hit the generator switch and point the propane flame down the tube. As soon as the engine starts to fire I'll replace the cap on the tube. I suspect this "primative" approach will work sufficiently to get started in the cold that I face. I'm also going to have the injectors overhauled. After all they are more than old enough to vote and look like they have rested where they are since they were born. The best to everyone at Newell.

[Neweller]

A
1937 2/11/2006 9:42:05 AM 2/11/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Newell Parts support Newell Coach has a retail parts department, and our hours are Monday through
Friday from 8:00AM to 5:00 PM. Parts ordered before 11:00 PM, are normally
shipped the same day.

We have a 24/7 emergency support hot line, and provide routine technical
support Monday through Thursday 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM.

Our parts and service department is co-located at our manufacturing
facility, and 100% of our service department technicians have previously
worked on the Newell production line.

[Neweller]

A
1938 2/13/2006 5:13:38 PM 2/15/2006 Ray Hoffman hoffmanray@msn.com speedo operation Just had to replace my VDO speedo in a 1988 coach. Had to use one of the new electronic ones and works fine up to about 40 mph after that guage will bounce all over the place. Odometer and tripmeter are working fine. Could there be a problem with the pickup on the trasmission?

[Neweller]

? Q
1939 2/17/2006 12:30:27 AM 2/18/2006 Bob nitzb1@hotmail.com speedo operation Had my 1988 Beaver Marquis VDO speed rebuilt several years ago for only $76.00````````````````````````
you might try this as a last resort

[Editor's note: Newell's of this vintage have a gear-driven electric sender at the transmission and an electric speedometer. Either component can cause a problem. We don't know if the Beaver speedo is similar or not.]

[Neweller]

A
1940 2/17/2006 11:21:19 PM 2/18/2006 Dean 67gto@myvine.com 12.5 Kw Genset Couldn't you just give it a squirt of ether? I built an airbox out of steel that houses a flat pleated air filter (a very common GM size) and mounts on top of the valve cover. It covers the whole top of the engine and helps reduce noise into the coach. No more messy oil "breather".

[Erika]

A
1941 2/18/2006 5:45:26 PM 2/20/2006 Tuga Gaidry tugagaidry@bellsouth.net replacing appliances I replaced the Amana s/s refrigerator with a Kenmore 20 cu.ft. side by side refrigerator in my 1993 Newell which had a mid entry door. It went thru the door with
room to spare; the stairs were straight, not curved.
Presently, I have a 1999 Newell with a curved stair way;
I don't think that a refrigerator would pass thru the entry door because of the counter top which completes the curved section of the stairway. This is a case of the new not being as good as the old!

[Erika]

A
1942 2/21/2006 1:57:01 PM 2/22/2006 Jon Kabbe jonlt@charter.net 12.5 Kw Genset Dean: I have used ether but I would prefer not to so I was exploring other options. Too little ether and nothing happens, too much and more than you want happens. Thanks for the idea on the air filter. I hear a fair amount of noise from the generator that would be nice not to hear.

[Erika]

A
1943 2/21/2006 2:50:41 PM 2/22/2006 Bon & Will Johnson autobonvehicles@charter.net Looking to Buy Need handicapped Newell with Braun uvl (undervehicle Lift). Or some kind of lift, wide aisles, made for handicapped. Tele:715-832-1111 Fri,Sat,Sun

[Erika]

A
1946 2/21/2006 4:00:54 PM 2/22/2006 Bon & Will Johnson autobonvehicles@charter.net 1998 45 FOOT HANDICAPPED EQUIPPED please send information & pictures. Will is a WWII Vet, can't stand or transfer & has to ride from his chair. Bon

[Erika]

A
1954 2/26/2006 10:15:44 AM 2/27/2006 Michael Day mday@direcway.com Pre-92 Newell's For Sale Section Randy, with any coach that is 15 years old, the care that the previous owner(s) took with it will determine how many things will need repair/replacement. The appliances (refrigerator, ice maker), if original will be likely candidates for replacement. The engine, if cared for should be in good shape but will likely need a full servicing (oil, filters, etc). I had mine dyno tested to help determine the condition of the 8V92. The coaches are very solid. Mine is virtually rattle free (some of the my things are still rattling around).

Just take the normal precautions you would with buying anything that is 15-17 years old and assume that you will have some maintenance. If the coach appears in ratty condition, run, don't walk, away.

[Erika]

A
1955 2/27/2006 11:24:01 AM 2/27/2006 Wayne Vidrine wayne@citizensbankvp.net Looking to buy Pre-1990 Newell Tom,
For sale, 1984 Newell 40ft. 350 Cummins Diesel generator
nice floor plan and in good condition. asking price $35,000.00

[Erika]

A
1956 3/2/2006 1:25:04 PM 3/2/2006 Stefan Johansson litleleaf@aol.com 94 Newell for Sale 94 Newell, white/blue trim with cream leather interior. Just finished refurbish with new leather upholstery. great condition coach, 165k miles, DSS, etc etc. Send email for pics and spec sheet. Stefan Johansson tel: 818-9067833 or 317-9850210

[Erika]

Q
1957 3/5/2006 8:11:24 PM 3/5/2006 alex Graham alex2839@charter.net Looking to buy Pre-1990 Newell 1986, 40-102, new tires, trans. minor overhaul, dual couches, king dome satellite, and many extras. 130K miles, all records available. $80,000
alexg@helloworld.com for photos and information.

[Erika]

A
1958 3/6/2006 11:07:53 AM 3/7/2006 Rich Farr toptin@cox.net Pre-92 Newell's For Sale Section Yes! I think it would be great if added a For Sale section. We currently have 1979 Newell 38' and are looking for right deal to upgrade (or trade up) to 1988/89.

[Erika]

A
1961 3/7/2006 12:48:07 AM 3/7/2006 RD Hood Katadjuster@comcast.net Checking VIN # for Newell Diesel Pushers In checking the VIN on my recently purchased coach it does not appear to follow the formula's above.
Perhaps you can assist (1N9912X80K1011024)it is supposed to be coach #205

[Erika]

A
1962 3/7/2006 6:59:06 AM 3/10/2006 Bon & Will autobonvehicles@charter.net wanted HANDICAP COACH Wanted HANDICAPPED 36'-40' coach/rv,lift,wide aisles,large shower,(ceiling track & lift would be great).tele: 612-747-6665.

[Erika]

Q
1963 3/7/2006 3:52:04 PM 3/10/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Checking VIN # for Newell Diesel Pushers An internal Newell numbering system started in 1983 with coach 001. For several years, this internal number was not incorporated within the VIN. However, beginning of deliveries of the Series 2000 coaches in April 1989, the last three digits of the VIN corresponded with our internal number, which at that point was 214. Coach 816, scheduled for delivery around June 1, 2006, will actually be the 1200th Newell produced since Newell was founded in 1967. At this time, we will adjust our VIN sequence so that this coach will be identified as "1200," On all subsequent coaches, the last four digits of the VIN will indicate the unit number counting from the first Newell.

[Erika]

A
1969 3/14/2006 3:36:12 PM 3/14/2006 James Tuckness JSTuckit@aol.com 100 amp alternator What changes are necessary to install a 100 amp alternator on my 71 Newell with 391 Ford engine? The existing altermator is 45 amp. The 100 amp is off a 76 Ford school bus. I hope to use converter for 120 volt AC.

[Erika]

Q
1970 3/15/2006 12:35:49 PM 3/18/2006 Gary Carter gcarter@usinternet.com Fuel Tank The main fuel tank measures out to 240 gallons. Any idea of how much of that is usable or how far off the bottom the pickup tube is (can recompute usable from this). I know it is over 180 gallons because I put that much in once.

[Erika]

Q
1971 3/17/2006 6:18:22 AM 3/18/2006 Thomas St. Clair stctom@yahoo.com 60 series egr FMCA's December 2002 edition tested an early 2003 model 4 slide coach. According to the author, the test coach had egr valves, and it was built in late 2002. He went on to talk about how Newell had redesigned the cooling system to handle the added heat load required. The author may have misunderstood information about future plans. Anyway, what was the coach number of this coach, and what coach number did valid slides become standard? Did all 4 slide's have valid slides?

[Erika]

A
1972 3/18/2006 7:53:39 AM 3/18/2006 Michael Day mday@direcway.com Carrying Capacity 1990-1994 Since my original post, I have purchased a 1992 43'6" Newell and now have the ability to weigh it so I can answer my own question. The Certificate of Origin for this coach (#281) lists the 'Shipping Weight' as 37,000 pounds and a GVWR of 45,200 pounds. The actual weight with just under 3/4 tank of diesel, just under 1/2 tank of fresh water, 1/2 tank of waste water, 3/4 tank of propane and driver was 40,180 pounds. That would give an NCC (full of fuel but nothing else) of around 6,300 pounds and a CCC (full fuel, full propane, full fresh water, and 4 people) of about 3900 pounds (large water tanks really take a toll on CCC).

This is excellent carrying capacity, significantly greater than a Prevost conversion of the same era.

[Erika]

A
1975 3/19/2006 8:18:21 PM 3/20/2006 Richard Evers rswildcats@netzero.net Pre-92 Newell's For Sale Section I would be interested in a website for pre-owned Newells in the early 90's and older. We plan to buy in the next year or so, and think a Newell is what we will buy.

[Erika]

A
1977 3/23/2006 9:08:08 AM 3/25/2006 gary golladay garygolladay@comcast.net Looking to Buy I am looking to buy a pre 1990 Newell. Send resonses to Email address above. A
1978 3/24/2006 6:06:13 PM 3/25/2006 1985 Newell Coach For Sale SOLD!SOLD!SOLD!SOLD!SOLD!

[Erika]

A
1979 3/25/2006 2:22:53 PM 3/25/2006 Tuga Gaidry tugagaidry@bellsouth.net Fuel Tank Gary, I have a 1999 45' w/262 gallon diesel tank. My red low fuel light comes on when I have used 180 gallons. I have 82 gallons left in the tank. On one trip the engine started sputtering when I would make a left turn and accelerate. After I filled up with 189 gallons it ran fine. Newell service told me that my suction tube my be mounted a little too high. It seems to me that 73 gallons of unuseable fuel is a little too much. Next time I'm in for service lowering the fuel suction line deeper into the tank is on the list. Good Luck.

[Erika]

A
1980 3/25/2006 2:34:56 PM 3/25/2006 Tuga Gaidry tugagaidry@bellsouth.net Sticking glide out gaskets I have noticed that when my bedroom glide out is first extended, the gasket seems to stick to the room during the first 12 to 18 inches. With the room extended I cleaned the outside with Simple Green and water and rinsed it thoroughly. Could anyone recommend a powder or a liquid to lubricate the gasket and keep it from sticking? The bedroom gasket was recently changed (1 month ago). It was nicked by a grinding wheel while the coach was being prepped for painting. The front glide out doesn't stick; it is the orginal gasket (still has paint on it). The coach is a 1999 model. I was told when extending the room; if the gasket sticks, stop the extending process, wait a couple of seconds, then continue pressing the extend button. I have done this and it works every time, but I am afraid that I may "roll" a gasket because of this sticking. Any ideas or help will be appreciated.

[Erika]

Q
1981 3/26/2006 10:49:51 AM 3/26/2006 Gary Carter gcarter@usinternet.com 24.5" tires I currently run Michelin XZE LRH on the steer axle, but just discovered that both Michelin and Bridgestone have a 305/75R24.5 LRJ. These tire will carry more weight and though listed as low profile there is only about 8 Revs per mile difference. Would like to hear from tech support and any owners that may be using this tire. BTW with full fuel my front axle exceeds 15,000 pounds. Q
1984 3/26/2006 1:47:12 PM 3/26/2006 MARK R. FINCKE MARKGMC3@AOL.COM Checking VIN # for Newell Diesel Pushers VIN NUMBER 1N9458X83X10011527
REQUESTING CONFIRMATION OF THE YEAR COACH WAS BUILT

[Erika]

A
1985 3/26/2006 2:07:23 PM 3/26/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Checking VIN # for Newell Diesel Pushers The "X" as the 10th digit indicates that this is a 1999 model. For a complete description of the Federal VIN system, go to: http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/vin.htm

[Erika]

A
1986 3/26/2006 5:37:50 PM 3/27/2006 Walt Reasons wpreasons@gmail.com Pre-92 Newell's For Sale Section I have located a '72 Newell that has had $6000 spent on rebuilding engine and $1000 spent on water & electrical repairs.

Being a first time possible buyer and not sure if I really will like RV life, this looks like an inexpencive way to get my feet wet. Is there anything special to look for other then is bath & bed is big enough for me? I know engines and wish this was a diesel as I have owned diesel cars & truck for years, but it is a gasser and I assume a 460 Ford V8 with a C6 transmission.

Seller is asking $13,000 for it and I am going to look at it Wednesday and any imput or warnings would be helpful.

[Erika]

A
1987 3/27/2006 7:50:53 AM 3/27/2006 Michael Day mday@direcway.com Checking VIN # for Newell Diesel Pushers Mark, the plate that gives the VIN and GVWR should also give the date of manufacture. My unit is a 1992 model manufactured in 1991.

[Erika]

A
1988 3/29/2006 4:39:16 PM 3/29/2006 Thomas St. Clair stctom@yahoo.com Valid questions Do all 4 slide models have valid slides? What coach number did valid slides become standard?

[Erika]

Q
1990 3/30/2006 5:18:18 PM 3/30/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Valid questions The first Newell built with Valid slides was 645. We were pleased with the results, and beginning with 650, all Newell slides have been manufactured by Valid.

[Erika]

A
1991 3/31/2006 7:13:35 PM 4/1/2006 Rich Farr toptin@cox.net Height Control Valves Lost right rear air suspension height control valve on recent trip. Sort of makes things sag on one corner... 1979 Newell coach with 'classic' manual air leveling (which I have now charted and reverse engineered). Plan to replace/upgrade all 3 valves at the same time (has one in the front that controls both sides). Leaning towards Haldex "controlled Response" valves as opposed to instantaneous response. Would like to use the best available. Do Newell tech folks (or anyone) have "Gold Standard" recommendation or experience to share? Thanks in advance..

[Erika]

Q
1992 4/2/2006 6:22:04 AM 4/2/2006 Gregg Nash gnash55@aol.com Headlights I recently purchased a 1978 Newell. I drove is after dark and the headlights were very dim. Are they on the house battery circuit rather than the engine circuit?

[Erika]

Q
1993 4/2/2006 8:24:43 AM 4/2/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Headlights The headlights are on the engine 12 volt system. We suggest that you check the voltage at the headlights. If the voltage is above about 13, replace the headlights, perhaps with high performance replacement units that are available in the aftermarket. If the voltage is below 13 volts, check the voltage at the alternator and adjust upward if set at less than 13.8 at the alternator. If the voltage at the alternator is 13.8 volts or better, check other points between the alternator and the headlights to determine where voltage loss is occuring, and repair or rewire to increase the voltage at the headlights. A tip to decrease voltage loss to the headlights: provide power to the headlights through a relay installed close to the headlights rather than running the headlight power through the switch on the dash. Use the dash headlight switch only to operate the relay.

[Erika]

A
1994 4/2/2006 8:37:36 PM 4/3/2006 Eric Latham elatham@vt.edu Owner's Manual Anyone know where I can get a copy of the owner's manual for a 1984 Coach?

[Erika]

Q
1995 4/3/2006 4:38:19 AM 4/3/2006 Gregg Nash gnash55@aol.com Headlights Thanks I'll check.
1.What is a macerator. Switch by the stove?
2. Is the system setup to charge all batteries off the alternator?
3. Does the coach have an air ride system? How do I adjust?
4. Is the entire wire panel under the dash powered by engine circuit?

[Erika]

A
1996 4/3/2006 5:25:35 AM 4/3/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Owner's Manual Many of these topics have been covered and are in the archives. To search the archives, click on the "Find" button in the left margin. Type in the topic (Owners Manual). One posting in the archives you will find that addresses your question you will find is http://www.newellcoach.com:591/bboard/FMPro?-db=bboard.fp3&-format=msg.htm&-lay=form%20view&-sortfield=Date%20Created&-sortorder=descend&-sortfield=Time%20Created&-sortorder=descend&App=1&select=cn&select2=cn&select3=cn&Message=owners%20manual&-recid=33177&-find=

[Erika]

A
1997 4/3/2006 5:42:49 AM 4/3/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Headlights 1. The macerator is a pump/grinder that pumps the contents of the holding tank from standard hose fittings located under the tankage compartment door, normally one on each side. 2. There is a three-position switch marked "Merge" on the dash. The center position is off, while the up and down engage one of two solonoids to merge the batteries using either chassis or house power. Among other things, engaging the merge switch allows the engine batteries to charge when the coach is parked with the electrical cord plugged in. The solonoids are located on the electrical terminal board behind the door at the right rear corner of the coach. These solonoids wear out, and should be replaced annually with new ones rated for continuous duty. 3. Yes, 1978 Newells have air ride. 4. The front terminal board (in front of the copilot seat) is powered by the engine 12-volt system.

[Erika]

A
1999 4/3/2006 12:25:28 PM 4/5/2006 Mark mlhabetz@advplastics.com 1984 Newell I am looking at a 1984 Newell. One of my concerns is the Cummins 350 Diesel. I am told that this engine is no longer manufactured and that parts may not be available. Is this true? Is this a good engine?

Thanks,
Mark

[Erika]

Q
2001 4/5/2006 3:37:47 PM 4/5/2006 jeff jeffsurfer59&yahoo.com heating sytem what floor heating sytem is in 91

[Erika]

Q
2003 4/6/2006 11:01:41 PM 4/9/2006 Troy Tikalsky ttikalsky@earthlink.net High Temp Shutdown The high temp shutdown is disconnected on my recently purchased 1986 Newell with 8V92 Detroit. It appears like the exhaust may have broken and rested on the sender melting the wires in the process. The wires were cut and tied off to the side. I would like to have this working. Any suggestions for wiring schematic and replacement sender for this motor?

[Erika]

Q
2004 4/10/2006 1:23:29 PM 4/10/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com High Temp Shutdown The high temp shutdown senders are in stock at Newell. To order, please call Jim Gering, 1-888-3NEWELL.

[Erika]

A
2005 4/10/2006 4:07:56 PM 4/11/2006 Jon Kabbe jonlt@charter.net Height Control Valves My 77 coach has had the controlled response valves on it for a long time, long before I bought it. These are necessary since there are no shutoff valved in the lines to the airbags. With instant response valves you need shutoff valves or any out of "level" on any control valve will ultimately result in an empty airbag after the engine compressor is shut down. My system works fine adjusting to weight changes and bumps without constantly floating. I don't understand what advantage there would be to instantaneous valves. Perhaps I've missed something. I did replace one failed valve with Haldex brand supplied by Newell.

[Erika]

A
2006 4/10/2006 6:24:42 PM 4/11/2006 doug humphrey doug@joss.com right tires for #355 Bus 355 needs new shoes, what tires are you guys recommending
for her? 1993 Newell. Thanks, Doug

[Erika]

Q
2007 4/11/2006 4:33:47 AM 4/11/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com right tires for #355 A lot of basic information is available on the board by conducting a search. If you click on the find button on the left side of the page and search "tires," you will find this thread and the answer to your question: http://www.newellcoach.com:591/bboard/FMPro?-db=bboard.fp3&-format=msg.htm&-lay=form%20view&-sortfield=Date%20Created&-sortorder=descend&-sortfield=Time%20Created&-sortorder=descend&App=1&select=cn&select2=cn&select3=cn&Message=tires&-recid=34540&-find= In any case, 11R24.5 Load Range H with a speed rating of 75 mph is the correct answer. We prefer the top-of-the-line Bridgestone, although other brands have also performed well in this application. Caution: later model coaches with 315 metric sized tires should always be equipped with Michelin tires, load range L, once again, with a 75 mph speed rating.

[Erika]

A
2008 4/11/2006 8:15:59 AM 4/12/2006 Anthony Gould tony@gouldsite.com Air Pressure Multiplier I understand that the Parts Dept has air pressure multiplier available for sale. What are the part #s and designations? How do I go about making this purchase?

Thanks

[Erika]

Q
2009 4/11/2006 8:46:58 AM 4/12/2006 Dan McLaughlin dkmclaugh@sault.com For Sale 1994 Newell 40 1/2 foot Black, grey and blue with blue leather inside and grey walls, excellent condition:new tires,batteries, radiator, larger preheat engine, new inverter/converter Newell in heated AC garage when not in use. Newell garage sees it twice each year. Tile bath, kitchen and eating area. Sun roof window. Selling because of my age.

[Erika]

Q
2011 4/11/2006 3:40:25 PM 4/12/2006 Jackie Hames dhames1164@sbcglobal.net Preowned 1986 to 1989 model Would like low milage and well cared for. No smoking and no pets prefered. Would like a Jake break.

[Erika]

Q
2012 4/11/2006 4:26:55 PM 4/12/2006 John McBain weebear@telus.net 12.5 kohler generator The genset in my 1990 Newell is overheating due to the cooling fan shutting down after a minute or so of operation regardless of the temp showing on the gauge. I was of the understanding that the fan was controlled by a thermo switch set for 170 degrees. I would like to know location of the switch in order to check if it is operating correctly. Any information would be very much apprecitated. Thank you.

[Erika]

Q
2013 4/11/2006 4:33:17 PM 4/12/2006 Lowell Nelson lnelson@backflowtech.com 1985 40' Newell for Sale 40' 102" wide 8V92TA single axle 141,000 miles 136,000 mile engine was removed to correct oil leak on blower; was rebuilt - new radiator - new belts - power steering pump - air compressor and alternator, all rebuilt. All other chassis components, transmission-suspension-brakes, etc., have been maintained as per manufacturer's recommendations. All windows were updated to thermo pane and day/nite window dressings installed. Sofa and dinette were upgraded to cream leather. New propane coach heaters installed. General tires have 5000 miles. New front television, radio and VCR upgraded within last 18 months. Satelite dish. No smoking or pets. This coach was full timer since purchase until last 5 years - since then was used 6 to 7 months out of the year.

Asking price: $55,000.00
Contact: Lowell Nelson @ 435-635-5751

[Erika]

Q
2014 4/12/2006 9:47:31 AM 4/12/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com 12.5 kohler generator The thermal switch is located within the motor and we understand that the switch cannot be repaired or replaced short of replacing the motor assembly. We have the motors in stock. Call Newell parts at 1-888-3NEWELL.

[Erika]

A
2015 4/12/2006 9:48:55 AM 4/12/2006 TechTalk Staff TechTalk@newellcoach.com Air Pressure Multiplier The information you are requesting, together with the air doubler, is available by calling Newell Parts, at 1-888-3NEWELL.

[Erika]

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2016 4/13/2006 11:32:33 AM 4/13/2006 S. Nyberg ivener@hotmail.com Inverter/Charger I have a 1986 40 8V92 that is in the process of needing an upgrade of a battery charger. Currently the coach has a Vanner charger and a Vanner 5000 watt inverter (yes, that is how it came from the factory). In reviewing this website & others it looks as if the best be may be to replace both units. This would also allow the opportunity to upgrade to AGM Batteries. What product line are people using today? What are people usng for size as 5000 seems high (and expensive)? Thanks!