Interesting article on using Lithium Ion Batteries.

[NewellCrazy]

Read an interesting article on using Lithium Ion batteries. The advantages claimed are smaller, lighter, more run time, and longer life cycles.

The person doing the test is a long time RVer, not a sales person. He boondocks 40% of the time and goes through a set of 8 AGMs in less than 2 years. I found the article interesting

Link Here: RVing Tips- RV LifeStyle - RV Travel Full Time RVing - RV Maintenance - RV Repair (http://www.aboutrving.com/rr_one.php#Overview)


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[The Newell]

Will have to bookmark this one. Thanks Sean. It does seem that he's really rough with his batteries, so it will be interesting to see how the Li-Ion will take to it.

[GringoPhil]

I did not read the link yet, but somehow he must be mistreating those batteries....there is no way you should be able to kill a large battery bank of AGM batteries like that in 2 years unless you are dong something wrong.

Just Sayin,

Phil

[Neweller]

This is some great information. I'm going to contact this company and find some more information about availability etc.... This is impressive, and I'm glad to see some great feed back coming in on these baby's.

This statement from the site is impressive in itself:

Apparent Advantages with Lithium Ion Batteries
First and foremost, I did not have any problems or issues with the batteries over the last ten months. They performed perfectly. I traveled and stayed in hot weather (above 100° F) and cold (17° F). I was in mountains and on flat land. I was close to the Mississippi River in Louisville, KY just before it crested and lived in 10 days and 11 inches of hard rain—moisture wasn't a problem. I spent about two months very close to or on the Atlantic Ocean—salt air wasn't a problem. I was parked for over 30 days at one period plugged into 50 amp shore power. We didn't run the coach or generator at all. No problem.

With lithium ion batteries, your small electric motors (solenoids, etc.) in the coach should last longer because you get "All the volts, All the Amps, All the Time." I had two slideout motors replaced just a few days before I got these batteries last year. During the ten months I have tested the lithium ion batteries, I have NOT replaced any electric motors on my 2007 Monaco Dynasty and we live in it fulltime, therefore, we really do "use" it.

Since lithium ion batteries weigh so much less than the normal ones, it would seem logical that I'm getting a bit better fuel economy but I can't confirm that.
As previously stated, I took 611 pounds of excess battery weight out of my coach.

[Newellin Thunder]

Judging by the cost of Lithium car batteries, I don't think Lithium batteries will be replacing RV batteries any time soon.

I agree with others, AGM batteries are very tolerant batteries. You have to go out of your way to damage them and two sets in 50 months is damaged batteries.

[Neweller]

I have never used AGM's in order to put them through the hard rigorous uses of charging and discharging so frequently as this gentleman and don't know if he has abused them or not? Or if anyone else has put AGM's through this kind of boondocking treatment. Could this be a weak point with AGM's? I believe most of the folks around here that own AGM's do not boondock all that often, but I could be wrong. Just my thoughts.

This is near the end of the mans trial run and he had this to say:

To date, we have had our lithium ion batteries installed for 19 months and since we are fulltime RVers, they were used continuously for that 19 months. During that time, we have put VERY close to 30,000 miles on this coach since the lithium batteries were installed.

What is important about this period of time (19 months) is this is equal to the amount of time our second set of AGM (8-D) batteries lasted. In my online discussion entitled, "A Discussion of Batteries," I wrote the following (repeated here, verbatim)...
[Author Note… The recharging is, we believe, was what wore out our AGM batteries. We boondock an average of 12 nights per month. If the generator ran (recharged the batteries) an average of 3 times in 24 hours, for us that would be 684 recharge cycles during the 19 months our second set of AGMs lasted. I was told by Lifeline that the AGM GPL-8D batteries (like I had) have a recharge cycle of 1,000 times. Mine certainly did not last that long.]

BUT (this is a big "but"), if those AGM batteries had provoided more power to my coach and DID NOT need a recharge three times in 24 hours, then the total recharge cycles would be even less. For example, since that was 228 boondocking nights in 19 months. Recharging twice per day (instead of three times) would mean that the batteries failed with approximately 456 recharge cycles—less than half of what Lifeline promotes.

[NewellCrazy]

Wow, I wonder how many other folks have had similar issues while boondocking and using AGM batteries. That being the case I don't see the value in buying AGM batteries if they can't handle a little boondocking each month.

Talk about an expensive lesson,

Sean

[JustDustin]

Great share Sean. His site is packed with good information on more then just batteries. The guy gives us his typical use and to me it doesn't seem unreasonable.

[PIExpress]

Here are Li-Ion batteries and prices from the company in that article:


12v 200ah lithium ion battery (http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery.php)

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12V 200AH LITHIUM ION BATTERY

Model/SKU: SB200
Weight: 72.00 lbs
<form method="post" id="prod_form"> Price: $2,299.99


http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/templates/default/img/star-2.png http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/templates/default/img/star-2.png http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/templates/default/img/star-2.png http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/templates/default/img/star-2.png http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/templates/default/img/star-2.png (http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery.php?reviews)
Be the first to write a review (http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery.php?add_review).
<tbody>
Quantity


</tbody>
</form> Smart Battery™ SB200

12V 200AH Lithium Ion Battery
Size: 8D
Nominal Voltage: 12.8V
Amp Hours: 200
2000 Cranking Amps

Length (inches): 20.47"
Width (inches): 10.5"
Height (inches): 9.0"
Weight: 72 lbs.

240 min @ 50A
60 min @ 200A
Max Continuous Discharge 120A

Charge Voltage: 14.6v

Life in Cycles: 3000-5000
Operating Temperatures - 4 F + 158 F
99.1% Efficient
Internal Impenetrableness: 0.9>>

-LiFePo4 technology
- 70% Lighter
- 10 x Longer life
- ZERO Maintenence
-Heavy duty high output terminal posts.
-Dual purpose; Engine Starting and Deep Cycle
-Automatic built in battery protection system (http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/LithiumIonBatteryProtectionSystem.php).
Perfect for:
MOTORHOMES, TRAVEL TRAILERS, FIFTH WHEELS,
BOATS, YACHTS, SAILING, TROLLING, ELECTRONICS
SOLAR BACK UP POWER AND OTHER DEEP CYCLE APPLICATIONS

[Novice Traveler]

It takes 8 to 12 hours to fully recharge a lead acid battery. Count in the fact that the discharge cycle should be at least that long and you have a tough time doing 2 cycles per day down to 80% DoD.

[Will Procter]

According to his research, AGM batteries give a charging life cycle of about 1,000 discharge/recharge cycles. figures his RV lifestyle includes 2 charge/recharge cycles a day, 40% of the days. So that would be about 300 cycles a year, giving a 3 year battery life. He seems to get 33 months on the last set, pretty close to the design life of AGM batteries if you ask me.

Will

[Neweller]

The math doesn't pencil out too awfully bad on these baby's. For the benefits you get with them and knowing they can be drained and recharged 3000-5000 times is quite impressive. I think if one can afford to go this route along with solar then they would be well equipped for the long haul. Now for someone that isn't going to keep his coach that long or does not want to invest this much and does not boondock really at all should maybe just pass on the idea.

I believe Liberty Coach has got the right idea on their new coaches.:thumbsup: If you are already up in that kind of pricing, I think for your yield of benefits it's chump change and the affluent buyer would not know the difference.


Will, I love your tag line. May I add that "Some call me the Gangster of Love"

[folivier]

I spoke with a salesman from Lithionics today. He claims that a 200amp lithium battery will equal 2 8Ds with 500 total amps. He also iterated that their is no voltage drop throughout the capacity of lithiums as lead acids have. So you would see a constant 12.8 volts or so regardless of how many amps you are drawing unlike lead acids where the voltage will drop considerably.
His batteries also have a builtin low voltage protection that shuts off the battery to protect it when it gets to the preset voltage. Don't remember but it is around 10% of amps left. So he recommended a 200amp lithium at $2400 (and it can be air shipped) to replace my 8Ds. Or you could get a 400amp for $4500 and get twice the amp capacity! And his batteries are drop-in ready.
Sounds very interesting. So who's gonna be the first to try them?

[The Newell]

Forest,

From the sound of your post I thought you volunteered to be the guinea pig lol! :bolt:

[folivier]

Well, until these agms kick the bucket I'll ride 'em to death!
Besides if we do move up to a 45' it's pointless to put these in my 39'er.
But when it's time I'll definately look into it.
So someone has to be the guinea pig.

[Neweller]

I'll be a guinea pig if I land a coach that needs batteries. To me this sounds like a dream deal for someone wanting solar. We have more solar sitting on pallets than we know what to do with.