1972 Brake Schematic

[sopicki]

Hello again, I'm really trying to get a fast education on the systems on our Newell. It's a 1972 and appears to have vacuum assisted hydraulic brakes. I am unfamiliar with this type of system. Is this system borrowed from any other chassis, perhaps cab over Ford trucks? I've really got to go through all of the systems of our Coach but I really need to know what to be looking for, my learning curve is a vertical line right now. Does anyone have info on this system? Perhaps a general schematic or diagram from a similar vehicle or a similar Newell? Thanks for your help!!!

[sopicki]

Well, still looking for info on who manufactured the brake system on our Newell. It has a master cylinder that sends fluid to two very large vacuum assist modules. One module powers the front brakes and the other powers the rear. They look rare and my brother-in-law diesel mechanic has never seen anything like them. The rear wheels have 2 wheel cylinders per wheel and the fronts just one wheel cylinder per wheel. I'd love to at least change the brake fluid, anyone know if I can draw fluid from the wheel cylinders through the assist cylinders? Thanks!

[rellick]

Bob I thought the old Newells were Ford chassis?

[sopicki]

Rellick, I do believe that many Ford parts were used in the original Newells.....but which parts? I know my ignition switch and headlight switch are from Ford trucks as I have identical parts in my parts bin from a '67 F-100 I used to own but I can hardly go to the parts store and ask for Ford brakes. I was hoping someone might have a brake/steering parts list or at least know what chassis these parts were borrowed from so I would have something to take to the parts guys. The brakes and steering work great for now but I'd hate to rip it all out and engineer a whole new system because I can't find a wheel cylinder or a tie rod end. Thanks!!!

[sopicki]

Hello Forum, We took the Carole Ann about 100 miles from Massillon Ohio to Geneva-On-The-Lake Ohio for our first real camping trip. Still much work to be done, but we really wanted to get some use out of her. The coach performed magnificently, the steering is tight, engine and transmission are purring, electrics are doing what they should....BUT the brake pedal went to the floor as we pulled into the RV park. As I've been afraid of, I obviously blew a seal on one of the four wheel cylinders as there was brake fluid dripping out of my left rear wheel. My daughter and I rode our bikes to a local parts store and got some brake fluid and I bled the brakes at our camping spot. This was good enough to get us home, but now I've got to find a wheel cylinder. Any suggestions for part numbers, a manufacturer....anything? I'll be bringing the coach to my brother-in-law's shop to pull the wheels and axles (the axle has to come out of the diff to get the drum off) so we can get a better idea of what the wheel cylinder looks like. Could these brakes be from a Ford F-600? Anyway, just asking again if anyone knows who built the brakes on our early 70's Newells. Thanks!

[rellick]

Hi Bob, it sounds like you are facing the inevitable challenge of finding your brakes parts. I think you are on the right track with the f-600 ford parts. Sometimes you can rebuild wheel cylinders as long as they aren't pitted too bad, as far as seals and bearings you should be able to get part no's from them or match them up according to size at a bearing place.
If you have no luck with a parts place try a brake relining place, probably be best to take your parts right to them. Also tell them its for a f-600 TRUCK!! Not a motorhome, you will confuse them and chances are they will not help you. We both know there is no parts listing for a 72 Newell. Hope this helps and best of luck on your quest!!

[sopicki]

Keith, We have a great brake place just south of us in Dover Ohio called Dover brake. These guys should be able to set us up with whatever we need, however they aren't cheap. If I had part numbers I could shop for a better deal on the wheel cylinders and give them the re-lining work. Also, I hate to tie up a bay in my brother-in-law's shop with axle shafts removed just in case we're not able to get parts in a timely manner. This was one of the reasons I was hoping to find part numbers before something broke. Right now I'm looking for 1971 or 72 F-600 brake schematics or parts lists but still little success. Thanks again!!

[sopicki]

Dover Brake to the rescue! This week we got all 4 sets of wheels off of Carole Ann to work on the brakes. All 6 wheel cylinders were leaking to some extent, the rear bearings and races were pitted, and the shoes on the side that blew the seal were soaked. We took all the parts and the brake hoses to Dover Brake in Dover OH and they had 5 of the 6 wheel cylinders on the shelf, ordered us the remaining cylinder and new Timken bearings and races, new National inner hub seals, manufactured new brake hoses and relined the shoes for $435!


4584New wheel cylinder and repainted drum4585New Parts4586What a mess4587She's flying!

We're changing the transmission fluid and rear end gear oil also. Once she's all back together I'll be bleeding the brakes. I'll be using a vacuum bleeder but I've never bled brakes with a Bendix HydroVac unit. Does anyone have experience with bleeding these types of brakes and care to share?

Thanks!

[rellick]

Good deal Bob!! it looks like you solved the mystery of your brake parts quest!!:thumbsup: the price was right too!! Were the wheel cylinders common? (Ford)?

[sopicki]

Keith,
Paul at Dover brake recognized the brakes immediately as a Bendix setup. I asked him what applications might have used this and he said everyone did. I was hoping I'd be able to find one silver bullet application like a Ford F600 but that just isn't going to happen. I still can't find ANYTHING on the front axle or steering and I even purchased the 1972 Ford Truck parts manual. NONE of the illustrations look like my brakes, steering or axles. I am writing every part number down as they get replaced. Hopefully the beneficiary of this record keeping will be whoever inherits Carole Ann after I'm no longer able to drive.....(hopefully 30+ years!) I'm still a bit disappointed that Newell is not able (willing?) to help.
Thanks again.

[sopicki]

Well the brakes are done, but while we had her up in the air we decided to change the motor/transmission mounts too (pictures in the Major Mechanicals Forum) which really slowed us down. I flushed darn near 3 liters of brake fluid through the system and everything is coming out spotless now. Bleeding the HydroVac units was not fun as they are very hard to reach. Hopefully I'll have her on the ground Monday or Tuesday.

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[rellick]

Great news Bob!! It looks like its coming along great, im glad you found all the parts you needed, it sure can be an adventure and sometimes a challenge owning one of these classics, but when its all done and your purring down the highway its all worth it. You should be ready for some good times and fun trips with Carol Ann!!

[sopicki]

Well......not so fast......got her off the jacks and pedal was soft so......bleed again and no improvement. Looks like fluid is making it past the seals in the master cylinder. I pulled it out (I worked my body into positions that would make Houdini envious!) and it was full of crud. I MAY have one on the way from Chicago, we'll know if it's the right one on Friday. Of course this makes the HydroVac units suspect now too. The master is $209 and the HydroVacs will be $400 each to rebuild. I think I just might rebuild those too.....then everything will be repaired or replaced.

[rellick]

And the adventure continues....good luck Bob!

[sopicki]

So got her home last week, almost 2 months after starting the brake project. Replaced all 6 wheel cylinders, all 3 brake hoses, left rear brake shoes, master cylinder and both hydrovacs. I'm SURE I still have air in the brake lines as the top hydrovac is almost impossible to reach but I'll get it bled in the spring, for now I was able to drive home. The brakes are GREAT......on the second push of the pedal.

Secondary projects while in the shop were welded up holes in both battery compartments, welded some reinforcements to the spare tire rack, sanded and painted the hydrovac compartment, changed the transmission fluid and filter, replaced the rear wheel bearings and races, replaced the rear axle seals, replaced the differential seal, replaced the diff lube with synthetic lube, replaced the transmission mounts and removed the generator fuel tank. I'll be sanding and painting the 15 gallon generator fuel tank this week and then installing a fuel level sender which it has never had.

We have a 6.5kw Onan generator on the bench also and I'll be refurbishing it over the next 2 months. This will replace the Generac 6600W generator that is currently in the back.

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