Best option for upgrading inverter?

[jdaniel]

My coach has a Heart inverter and seperate charger (yes it cooks the batteries). I would like to upgrade to a newer inverter that includes a better charging system. I have used a Freedom Marine 25 in the past and liked it. I'm sure the batteries would last longer.
My present inverter has a seperate remote panel and it doesn't matter if it's in the on, off or slow charge position, the inverter is still on. My lights, tv and microwave are on the line that I know of....maybe more. Thats all I need to run.
My coach came with 4 8-D but I have added two more. STILL when it sits unplugged overnight, I have to use the merge switch to crank it. If it sits a couple of days it's all too dead. That just doesn't seem right. Am I missing something or would an inverter update be a good idea?
If so, how complicated is it to wire in the newer style inverters?

[encantotom]

mine originally had a separate inverter and charger, like most of our vintage. the only way to go is with an inverter charger.

there are two choices and then choices of brands.

choice one....modified sine wave. this is fine except can potentially cause some problems with a few lcd tv's, but most will work just fine with it. my samsung lcd tv's work fine. computers like clean power, but i have had no problem with mine on a modified sine wave.

choice two....pure sine wave. this is the way of choice. but it is considerably more expensive. if i were to replace mine, i will go this way. you can even get the ability to have the generator autostart when the batteries get too low.

i happen to like Xantrex brand. they have great tech support and are really great units. i have the freedom 458 2kw. i know michael has a pure sine wave and there are two different choices of them from xantrex.

size of the inverter is usually the larger the better, but not always so. a large inverter without the supporting batteries will give you lots of power for a very short period of time.

there are other brands too that i am sure are fine.

as to installing, if you are reasonably handy with wiring and not afraid to dig into it, they will not be real tough to put in. that said, it is critical to install them correctly and very dangerous if you dont.

xantrex has downloads of their installation manuals on their inverter chargers that you can download and look at. it shows various configurations and will give you a feel.

i just repaired my inverter by putting a new control board in that fixed not being able to turn it on and off. so i will keep mine for a while. though this weekend i am rewiring it to work the way i want with new romex and ne breakers.

so, i wouldnt myself be afraid of putting it in.

you will need to determine if the thumb sized wires coming from the batteries are big enough for what you want to put in, and the same for the romex going to and from the inverter to the panel. as well you will need an large inline fuse by the batteries and the proper wires for whatever control panel you put in. nowadays, they require a 6pin phone cable or cat5. i ran cat5 for mine as i relocated the control panel.

my inverter charger is under my bed with the batteries being on each side of the coach just behind the inverter.

i am sure michael will have great comments here as well. sounds like a fun project. i would be glad to sketch out my complete wiring for you if you think it would help.

the thing with having it installed is that you will pay full retail price and then i would guess 4-700 dollars labor. i am not afraid to shop online and in fact, i would not be afraid to be refurbished units either. i know michael bought a refurbished one and has had no problems.

contact me privately if you want to talk and i will give you my phone number.

later

tom

[tuga]

My Heart 2500 inverter/charger is showing an E -07 message in the the Link 2000 window inside the coach. I read the owner's manual and it showed that the Triac was overheating. What in the hell is a Triac? It stated to turn it off and let it cool down. I did that, and it gave the same error when turned back on.

Can anyone give me some advice on what parts have to be changed?

[encantotom]

howdy,

a triac is a type of current switch using a pair of thyristors. it is most likely on the main circuit board of your invertor. there are only 3 or so boards inside the unit.

i just replaced the control board in mine and it was about 200 bucks for the board alone. the main circuit board is more like 4-500 bucks. (i am pretty sure but not positive) i just remember the tech saying that if it was the main board it was in that order of cost....

i am just guessing which board it is on though.

then you have to pay labor to replace the board and check it out. could cost you another hundred bucks or so. that is if you take the inverter charger out yourself and take it to a xantrex repair center yourself. i got lucky in that the repair center was only a few miles from my house.

btw, the link 2000 control panel you have is very very expensive. in the order of 400 bucks best price.

hard choice to make if it really is going to cost 500 bucks or so to fix. i probably would put in a pure sine wave inverter charger then....

my two cents worth...about all it is worth.

tom

[encantotom]

hey, i spent considerable time trying to locate new circuit boards to put in my inverter myself....i was not able to find any anywhere and i am pretty good at finding this stuff. they are only available from authorized repair centers....

tom

[fulltiming]

Jimmy, your issue sounds like a dead battery charger or no electric power to the battery charger's outlet. If you are pleased with your existing inverter, you can replace your battery boiler with a new multistage battery charger and install it in the same location as your existing charger (likely in the bay). Unless your system has been changed out or modified since it was built, your battery charger is plugged into an outlet in the bay with the power cord and transfer switch. First make sure that the outlet it is plugged into has power. If the outlet has 120 volts and the charger is still not producing any voltage, you will need to either replace the charger with a good multi-stage charger or replace the inverter and charger with a combination unit.

I upgraded my inverter and separate battery boiler (er, charger) to a ProSine for 3 reasons: 1) I didn't want to destroy my AGM batteries, 2) I wanted more inverter power as the original inverter was only 1200 watts and would not run the microwave with the power already being consumed by the TV's, etc, and 3) I wanted to make sure that my electronic equipment had the cleanest power available.

In the change over, I had to rewire my inverter system to take advantage of the new inverter/chargers built-in transfer switch. This presented both a challenge and dilemma. The new inverter allows all of the circuits that are wired through the inverter to switch over to the batteries immediately without having to manually turn the various circuits on from the switches located around the coach. However, as the unit does run all the time now, it creates more heat in the bedroom than previously. I did have to increase the size of the wiring and add a separate electrical sub-panel but the results were worthwhile. My only regret is the added heat from the new unit. I would not have had adequate room to install the 2kw ProSine in the bay where the power cord and the old battery charger was located. By installing the ProSine in the location of the existing inverter, I was able to leave the old battery charger in place and just unplug it. It is available should I ever need to use it to bring back badly discharged batteries or should the battery charger section of the ProSine fail. You do have some fan noise under the bed that did not exist previously unless you were actually running on battery power.

[fulltiming]

Tuga, unless you have a friend that is good with electronics, you are probably better off looking for a replacment for your inverter. I have been very pleased with the remanufactured unit I bought. Yours is a higher wattage (thus more expensive) unit than mine. The new Outback inverters are HIGHLY recommended.

[tuga]

Thanks everyone, I think that I will talk to Newell - get their opinion. But it looks like an Outback inverter is in my future. Michael, who did you buy your remanufactered unit from?

[fulltiming]

Tuga, I purchased a remanufactured 2kw ProSine from Discount Solar in Quartsite, AZ.

[tuga]

Good Michael, I'll call them after I talk to Newell. Thanks again.

[tuga]

I talked to Creslie today and he referred me to Ron. While I was talking to Creslie, my inverter started smoking. Not Good! After discussing everything with Ron, I decided to send the unit off to be repaired. Unfortunately, Newell parts does not have any re-built units in stock according to Chuck Clark.

So I guess I will just wait to hear from the repair service!

Thanks for all of the advice and help.

[fulltiming]

Nope, when the smoke leaks out you definately have a serious problem.

[jdaniel]

After finding my inverter under the cabinets in the bathroom closet, I have a modified sine wave Heart inverter/charger so I should not have to upgrade. There is a Heart remote panel next to the refridgerator that says on/off/low charge. No matter where it's set, the inverter power is on. Problem one, I guess if I leave it set to "slow charge" it might not boil the batteries when it's plugged into shore power. We'll see. Problem two is when it sits overnight and not plugged in, the batteries are drained to the point I have to use the merge switch. If it sits two days, they're all too dead. Why would they drain so fast? I have four 8-D coach batteries and 2 cranking 8-D's. The fridge stays on and for some reason won't set to LP. It only wants to work on shore power/ generator or battery.

[fulltiming]

Jimmy, sounds like you have several different problems you are facing.

Inverter:
Depending on the model of your inverter/charger, it could still be a single rate charger rather than a multiple stage charger, however the remote panel setting indicate that it is likely at least a two stage charger.

Since you say you can not turn the inverter off, I presume that you mean that with the switch in the OFF position, the plugs fed by the inverter are still live. If you haven't confirmed that try it first as there should be a way to turn the inverter off. Otherwise, when you are not plugged into shorepower and do not have the generator running, anything plugged into the circuits that are fed by the inverter will continue to suck power from the batteries. I would presume that ON is charging and inverting, OFF is inverter and charger off, and Slow Charge is inverter off and charger in maintenance mode (low) setting.

I would first check to see if the remote panel is actually controlling the inverter. It is possible that the wiring to the remote panel is defective. The Heart/Xantrex remote panels I have seen/used all allowed the inverter to be turned off completely. If there are some high wattage items attached to the inverter powered outlets and the inverter is not shutting down, the batteries will drain down quickly. The ice maker in particular could drain your batteries in a couple of days even with four 8-D batteries.

Refrigerator:
Assuming that your coach has not been rewired so that the RV style refrigerator runs through the inverter, either the gas is turned off to the refrigerator, the orfice is dirty and not allowing the gas burner to light, the control board is bad, or the electronic igniter is bad (listed in order of probability).

Batteries:
Lastly, you need to verify that the charger section of the inverter/charger is working properly. If the voltage at the coach batteries goes up to 13.6-14.2 when the charger is on and the coach plugged into AC, I would verify that your coach batteries are still holding a charge. To do this, charge them fully either by driving the coach and letting them charge off the engine or by running generator and letting them charge off the generator's alternator or by using a good multi-stage battery charger, then disconnecting the main leads to the coach from the battery bank and check the voltage. It should be around 12.8 to 13.2 volts. Let the batteries sit for several days disconnected then check the voltage again. There should be very little voltage drop. If the voltage has dropped below 12.4 you likely have at least one battery that is failing.

Make sure that the dash battery merge switch is in the center (OFF) position. Otherwise any draw in the coach will pull down both the coach batteries and the chassis batteries. In either the up or the down position, the two battery banks will be tied together. This allows you to charge the chassis batteries from the inverter/charger when plugged in but should always be turned off when the coach is not plugged in.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Jimmy,

One more thing, if your fridge is not converting to propane, and it continues to run on electric from the batteries, that is a HUGE power draw. No wonder they drain overnight :-)

I have a panel located at the fuse box in the bedroom that allows me to turn the inverter on and off. The manual says that with a remote panel, that the on off switch at the inverter itself is disabled.

[jdaniel]

That must be my problem. When sitting every night the fridge would be running on battery power. For some reason, it won't switch to LP.
I have a breaker in the bedroom fuse panel for the inverter but I don't have an on/off switch. I'm going to look again today but the fridge alone may be whats causing my problems. Thanks.

[Richard and Rhonda]

Jimmy,

Just to agonize you with detail. A liquid ammonia system (RV style fridge) is not the most efficient refrigeration cycle that exists. It uses the heat of the propane flame to move the ammonia around and start the cycle. Now, when running on electric, you are using electrical resistance heating to turn electricity into heat. Again, not one of the most efficient processes around. So you take a double hit on the batteries with that little problem.

When you get your fridge running right, you will see that it will run forever on a tank of propane. FOREVER.

If it is a board, try these folks for the answer http://www.dinosaurelectronics.com/

[encantotom]

richard is right on. also on the dinosaur electronics. i bought 3 of their boards to redo my furnaces and they are awesome boards. i am in semiconductors and their boards are the best. much better than the oem boards. and you can talk to experts for advice there.

later

tom