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06-29-2009, 09:30 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Compresser fan motor failed
Well I quess it's my turn
Saturday night the middle AC quit & the circuit breaker tripped. Sunday morning I restarted the unit. The condenser fan came on & shut off after 3 minutes & the breaker tripped shortly thereafter. I was able to get the GE motor part # 5KCP29CK4432S off the label. Sunday was going to be warm here in Indy, so I decided to check the internet for the part & remove the motor on Monday. No luck on the net.
Called Newell this AM & they had nothing like what I have. I've sent them some pictures but have not heard back.
I did find an A O Smith motor ORV4539 $120; that with some mods & a new cap. might work, but they are on backorder!
Attached are the pictures I sent Newell
I have 2 new Carrier ducted units in Tulsa that I had planned on installing this fall on the front & rear as backups / replacements, but i guess I'm a little late. The time is took to get the old motor out & anticipated time to reinstall, I easilly could install one of the roof airs.
Any help on a replacement will be appreciated
Gordon
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06-30-2009, 02:14 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 886
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Gordon,
What year is your coach?
It has been 4 years, but my 1993 Newell had condensor fan motors like the one you have pictured. I went thru 5 motors in 8 years. I was told by Newell that the company that supplies them with the motors has production runs of 50 motors at a time. If I remember correctly I bought a couple of motors as spares; you might want to do the same once you find a supplier.
Here is a copy of my notes from July 2003: Gary Streeter called Dometic and Emerson is going to make 50 of these motors K33HXCDK 929 during the week of Aug. 11th. I told Gary to order 3 for me. It is a 115V 2.9amp Phase 1 1650rpm motor 1/6 hp Customer part # 3103626.002 Mfg # K99.8
I hope this helps.
Good luck. Don't worry; you'll find some motors!
__________________
__________________
Tuga & Karen Gaidry
1999 Newell 45 w/2 slides
Coach #512
2005 Pilot
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06-30-2009, 02:34 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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heres what you might do. since these motors are pretty common for a variety of air conditioners i would go to a local supply house for
first.....a local supply house for hvac. not a commercial place but a tradesman shop and see if they can match it up.
second....the same at an electric motor repair/sales shop.
both will be in the yellow pages.
take the old one with you. that way they can just match it.
worse case is maybe the electric motor shop can rebuild it. they can do magic if you get a veteran
tom
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06-30-2009, 02:39 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Gordon, does the compressor fan motor turn freely? If so, that might not be your problem. Typically the interior blower comes on, then there is a three minute delay, then the compressor kicks in. It sounds like the breaker is tripping when the compressor tries to kick in. That could be the compressor fan or the compressor itself.
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06-30-2009, 12:20 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 326
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Gordon,
If your close to a Grainger or similar store they may be able to help you. They have a good selection of that type of motor on hand or can usually get them in a day or so.
Wally
__________________
Wally and Phyllis
1988 Newell Coach #163
40' with tag 8V92
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06-30-2009, 01:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Thanks guys for all the info.
Tuga, my coach is a 1991 #266. I called Chuck again @ Newell & they do have that Emerson motor you referenced, but the shaft is 3/8th, not 1/2" like mine; the body is +3", mine is 4 7/8", and there are no mounting legs/ tabs as mine has. Dometic must have changed the design in the later models to this smaller motor, or someome has totaly retrofitted both my units to the current configuration.
I've checked the Grainger, et al motor web sites to no avail.
I'm off now to local shops to see what I can find.
You can find any kind of racecar part you want in Indy, so now I'm off to local shops to see what I can find on electric motors.
Gordon
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07-06-2009, 07:47 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Good news
The exact replacement arrived today. I called numerous shops in Indy to no avail. Went to Grainger, even though their web site had nothing close. The counter man spent about 45 minutes trying to help. He finally suggested a local shop, Horner Electric, even printed a map for me. After I found it, it took them about 10 minutes to locate one. $200 + fgt.
It has the same GE # as the original & seems to have a different bearing cover & bearing on the output end; hopfully improved. That is where the original problem was.
I checked my third AC & it has the same motor, so I suspect they are original.
I just wanted to post this so when someone else has the same problem, there is a solution.
Horner's # is 317-639-4621.
Now if some one has an easy way to re install the motor, I would really appreciate the info.
Access is really bad as I do not want to break the freon lines!
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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07-07-2009, 07:00 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Good News...............Bad News
I installed the new motor this AM. With all the major work done, I turned it on. All worked fine!
Finished buttoning up the upper assy(front AC) & decided to turn it on to check for rattles before closing it up. After about 5 minutes & no compressor or fan coming on, I got concerned. I hadn't done anything to the upper unit other than move it out of the way for access to the lower unit.
For some reason I wiggled the 120v wire going to the junction box on the upper unit & the compressor came on. I could not hear the fan. Then I heard some arcing & quickly pulled the power cord.
Opened up the junction box & the neutral wire was fried. looked further & the wire nut spring was still on the 10 Ga wire, the plastic cover was melted & the neutral wire going to the compressor/fan motor was melted. I also noticed the strain relief was loose where the house wire entered the junction box. I'm guess with all the moving around I did, a poor connection was made worse. I also noticed the wire nut on the black wires was not tight.
I ran new wire, fixes all the connections, but still no fan motor. I suspect the cap is ok as the compressor started, so I guess I fried the fan motor ?
Any suggestions
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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07-07-2009, 07:32 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Glad you found the bad connections before they started a fire Gordon. I would run 120 volts directly to the fan to verify that the fan is indeed fried. It could well be that the load from the previous motor burning out caused the meltdown in the power box or it could be that the loose connections and arching caused the meltdown in the power box and caused the original motor to short out.
I suspect that the motor will NOT start with 120 volt power going directly to it. Make sure the 120 volt power is on a circuit breaker so you don't expose more equipment to high current draws.
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07-07-2009, 07:40 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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on home aircons, there is a starter cap on both the compressor and fan motors. sometimes two separate ones or sometimes a dual cap in a single can.
it is possible that capacitor is bad. certainly alot cheaper to try than another motor.
but i would be getting my meter out to see if there is voltage at the fan motor.
should be able to get one for ten bucks or so. grainger will have them or any hvac supply house.
tom
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07-07-2009, 08:31 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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Michael
The middle a/c, lower compressor unit was the initial fan problem & I don't think it is involved with the current problem, front a/c upper compressor unit. the circuit breaker did NOT trip. I'm guessing if it was on a GFI breaker it would have?
Tom
This setup has a single cap for the compressor & motor. The black wire(s) go directly to the fan motor & compressor. 2 wires come from the motor & go to the cap. the compressor also has 2 wires to the cap. Given the black goes to the motor, it will be hot when activated by the controller @ the internal unit. The compressor started so I assume the cap is ok?
I'll pull it all apart tomorrow.
Those roof A/C's are really starting to look good. I had 2 on my 83 motorhome which I parted out when I got the Newell. They are both still running in my nephew's shop after 26 years!
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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07-07-2009, 09:24 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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the dual starting caps are essentially 2 capacitors in a single can with separate wiring terminals on top. so, one can work and the other not work.
the starter cap will be much much larger for the compressor than for the fan motor. for example, the one on my house 3 ton unit is a 60/5 MFD. 60MFD for the compressor and 5 MFD for the fan motor.
it gives the extra umph as the motors age to get them started.
there is also a kickstart capacitor that adds even more that are available.
http://www.kickstartoem.com/products/products.html
i still would be checking voltages to be sure they are ok. hopefully you didnt burn out the motor.
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07-08-2009, 12:27 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Iyopawa Island, Mi. (sometimes)
Posts: 421
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Gordon: If you have the same system as my 94, a Dometic, split air system, there is an expert in Elkhart, In. that has helped me (and Hoosier Daddy) many times. This is a very delicate and almost obsolete system, so damaging any part of it can lead to additional problems. FYI: Dave Holmes @ Holmes on Wheels, Phone# 574-266-1586
__________________
1994 Newell #365 w/Corvette, 2002 streetrod 34 ford golf cart, 2009 Smart Car, 1958 Century Coronado, 1965 Cruisers Inc, CAR & BOAT CRAZY! LOVE OUR NEWELL!
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07-08-2009, 11:51 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 279
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Had two of my three basement airs go down on way to FL and GA from CO last week. So, here is what the problems were:
1. My a/c guy in Denver put a new motor in #1 and didn't tighten the squirrel cage to the motor properly. Three miles out of my storage box in Denver, it trips the breaker and was making all sorts of racket. Easy to fix with right long allen wrench.
2. #2 a/c fried a wire connection in the control box which in my #303 is next to my fridge on bottom behind grate. The grate faces my dinette table and I simply removed a chair to remove grate and walla, there is the control box.
So, I get back to my coach today, and it is 7:30 pm in Hotlanta, and the temp outside is 78 degrees with very low humidity and the coach was 65 and freezing. I had to open all windows, shut off the airs and Denise put on a jacket.
Go figure. Is this a crazy life or what?
David
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07-08-2009, 11:57 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 1,543
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Better to be too cold....you can always turn off one, or two A/C's....congrats on fixing your problems. You are close to qualifying for an official Newell Geek membership card...LOL!!
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07-09-2009, 12:51 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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Very interesting.
I have had two different instances of the wires "cooking" in the control box for the basement airs. It seems that a number of you have seen the same thing. I am going to check the third one next time I'm out.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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07-09-2009, 05:15 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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David,
I am proud of you. you are really getting brave and tackling big things.
very cool.
i have a bunch of things to have you fix when we get in colorado.
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07-09-2009, 09:02 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Forest Ranch, Ca for the summer
Posts: 299
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update
I found a loose connection (my doing), as I reused a wire nut I should not of used. Re attached all the wires & wala all is working. I had planned on using all new parts but ran short.
Today I installed all new wire nuts & the compresssor starts but not the fan. I gave the blade a shove & it is still running after 30 minutes.
I figure is I drill a hole in the floor to the left of the drivers seat, I can used a stick to start the fan, even while driving; LOL
Larry, Thanks for that phone # of Dave, he is not that far away
Tom, back to the capacitor question. I have attached the wiring diagram from the Dometic/Duo-Therm manual. It appears to me that the "fan" cap. is in the Condensor unit, & the cap for the compressor is mounted in the evaporator section. The yellow wire runs from the "start cap" to the start relay, then red to the "fan cap" What I don't understand is why the compressor wires go to the fan cap. I must be missing something?
Another question I have is why is 10 Ga wire used from the evaporator unit to the compressor unit. 12GA runs from the circuit breaker to the evaporator, so 12Ga should be OK beyond that. The comp/fan use 12.1/3.6 running amps acording to the manual, but the fan motor label says 2.3. maybe the evaporator fan uses 1.3? 12Ga wire easily can handle this in this 10' run My point is that the 10Ga wire is very hard to work with given the confines of the box in the compressor section.
I just turned the unit off. According to the coach amp meter it was drawing 18 amps.
Help, I'm looking for a stick
__________________
Gordon Hummel
1991 41.5' #266
8v92
2009 Pontiac Vibe GT Toad
Fulltime on the road
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07-09-2009, 09:27 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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hi gordon, i have pm'd you with my cell phone. give me a call.
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07-09-2009, 09:42 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Gordon, hopefully you and Tom have already resolved this but your schematic does show the capacitor in the condenser section to be a dual cap. I would start by replacing it as the section for the fan motor is likely defective and not giving the motor that extra push to get it spinning.
I am a big fan of using larger gauge wire. While it is more difficult to work with, it certainly does reduce resistive losses.
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