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Old 07-14-2009, 04:34 PM   #1
afrench45
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Cool Michelin 365 tire upgrade newell and prevost coaches?

I took my coach up to Miami last week to have a few minor items fixed. Newell called today and said all was good except my front tires. They said the tires that were on it were natorious for having blowouts and needed to be changed. They said they could put new 315 on it or I could upgrade to the 365 for a big chunk of change. What should I do?
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:00 PM   #2
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Have you weighed your coach with full fuel and water and the 'stuff' you normally carry yet? That is truly the only way to know the correct answer. The upgrade for your coach is $3,800 including the new front tires and new wider wheels. The 315's that are on your coach have a capacity of 9,080 pounds per tire at 130 psi. The 365's have a capacity of 10,500 pounds per tire at 125 psi. Newell recommends a max cruising speed of 65 mph if you stay with the 315's and 75 if you go to the wider wheels and tires.

Additional information:
The primary benefit to the 365/70 is the extra safety margin on coaches with a very heavy front end. As larger and more slides have been added to coaches, the weight load on the front axle has increased dramatically. During the mid to late 1990's, Newell put Goodyear 315/80R22.5 Load Range J on the front axle. In 1997, when slides were added, front axle weights took a bump up. So Newell changed to Load Range L but immediately began experiencing steer axle tire failure with both Goodyears and Bridgestones. These tires started exhibiting tread separation so on recall, Newell replaced these tires with Michelin Load Range L tires. Most of the problems were resolved by switching to the Michelins. Newell recommended running 130 psi but increasing that to 140 psi for summer high speed cruising, replacement every 3 years and avoiding speeds over 75 mph for the 315's. Currently, Newell is suggesting that the 315's not be run for extended periods over 65 mph.

The 315's can run on either 8.25 or 9" rims. The 365's are recommended for 10-1/2" rims. The 315's are 12.5" wide and the 365's are 14.3" wide.

Summer high temperature and the heat caused by running at high speeds affect tire dependability. If your front tires are running close to their maximum load carrying capacity, then changing up to the larger wheels and tires is recommended. That is why knowing the weight of your coach by tire position is so important. If you don't know the weights by tire position, I would call Newell and ask them to weigh it and let you know so you can make an informed decision. I have had Newell weigh my coach on two occasions.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:37 PM   #3
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I'm not to concerned with the weight because typically we don't have anything to heavy. The speed was my concern because on average I run about 76. I'm usually ok until my smart-tire goes off. Then I have to slow down to about 65. I had to run 65 from Oklahoma City to Miami at 6:00 p.m. Because the tires were running about 175.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:19 PM   #4
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If your tires are inflated to 130 psi + cold and running that hot, and you are running that fast during the summer, the larger tires and wheels may be needed. Weight is always important since depending on the layout of the coach, the front end may not have all that much carrying capacity. Historically, most of the Prevost and Newell coaches, especially with salon slides run pretty heavy in the front compared to their front axle weight rating. A front mounted generator adds to that weight. Blue Bird Wanderlodge had to retrofit a number of their more recent models because they came from the factory with overloaded front ends, even empty.
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:30 AM   #5
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I've decided I'm going to go ahead and spend the extra $3200 and get the 365 simply for my familys safety while driving. Plus whenever I sell my coach, I can have them put on my new coach.
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Old 06-18-2011, 04:36 AM   #6
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do you have the part number and make of the new aluminum wheels you purchased from newell? i am just curious as to why it cost 3200 dollars for 2 wheels and 2 tires. i would be interested in looking at how much they are locally instead of paying newell that kind of money?
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:56 AM   #7
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Each coach cost can be different based on the coach year. The least expensive sounds like what little afrench45 is having done which is 2 new wider aluminum wheels, 2 new 365 Michelin tires AND 2 new wider and repainted front fender skirts.

On my coach the 365 tire upgrade was $5800. I would get everything above plus my coach has 1 1/16" wheel studs that have to be machined down to 7/8" and rethreaded. The machining is $2,000. Not sure why wheels could not be drilled larger. The larger studs were used for a few years. When Newell went to the independent front suspension in about late '96 or '97 the engineers felt the 1 1/16 wheel studs were needed. At some point around 2000 the Newell engineers backed the wheel studs off to 7/8". 7/8" wheel studs have been used since including 2011 coaches. At this point I can not justify the upgrade as I have weighed my coach and I am well within the 315 weight rating, I run about 63 mph normally and I keep them inflated to 130 psi. I also check the cruising temperatures when I'm on the road and seldom see temperatures above 130 psi.

Prevosts have gone to the 365s on the front and tag axle.

afrench45,
Listening to how you use your coach and the tire temps you are experiencing I think you're making a wise decision. Remember though if your front tires are needing to be replaced anyway the cost of the upgrade is cut in half, while your margin of safety is increased considerably. My advice to every one, based on personal experience, is to avoid a front end blow out at ANY cost. I have had two front end blow outs in over 30 years of motorhoming and the coach repair cost for those two blow outs is over $60,000. Makes that tire upgrade seem a lot cheaper.
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:09 PM   #8
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The information below is direct from the Newell Factory on this:

365 Tire Upgrade

Starting with Coach 1230, the standard equipment for front and tag-axle tires was upgraded from metric size 315 to 365.

The 365 tire offers the following improvements:

Increases the weight-capacity rating from 9,090 lbs. per tire for the 315 to 10,500 lbs. per tire for the 365.

Reduces the recommended inflation pressure from 130 psi for the 315 to 120 psi for the 365. This results in a smoother ride.

Raises the approved maximum cruising speed from 65 mph for the 315 to 75 mph for the 365.

The Newell Service Department has developed upgrade packages for previously built coaches to replace the 315 tires on the steer axle with 365 tires. The scope and cost of this retrofit vary, depending on when the coach was built. That’s because some suspension designs require only new tires and wheels, while others also require new wheel hubs and fender modifications. Coaches with the Porsche-design front styling (one-piece windshield) also require some body modifications.

In my own opinion I don't think I would consider this upgrade for only the ride benefits, but what becomes a tough decision is when someone can stay within the published safety specifications by keeping proper air pressure and sustaining a reasonable cruising speed with routine replacement intervals. Maybe someone will eventually come up with a wheel that will fit the larger studs on some of the Newell Coaches. Neweller - are you listening?
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:48 AM   #9
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Tom, I can get you that information when I am at the coach tomorrow.
Steve, The wheels and new tires bolted right on, and to my knowledge I did not get new finder skirts.
After having the 365 tires I will never run on anything else. We have taken many trips in 90+ temps running 75-80mph with no problem. I know on the newer coaches (I believe 05-06 and up)new fender skirts are required. I know in some instances it can cost up to $15000 I have seen!

Been using the coach non-stop and loving every second of it.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:06 AM   #10
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i would be interested in the part numbers and such for the wheels so i can see if they can be had without going through newell. i like to stay away from their big pricing. if it requires re-machining of lug bolts, that would be a big hassle for sure.

i have also heard that newell offers a sway bar or stabilizer upgrade that improves the handling pretty dramatically on the late 90' to early 2000 coaches. anyone heard of or done that? i was chatting with a fellow who had a 2001 and he talked about that a friend of his with a similar year newell had the tire and stablizer upgrades and it made an incredible ride and handling difference. hard to think it was very bad to start with...

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Old 06-21-2011, 11:37 PM   #11
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So..............

I have been thinking about this upgrade for a year now. Some at Newell say it won't work with a straight axle like mine, others say yes with a change of wheel studs and addition of wider fender flares. The poppets may have to be reset in the steering gear box to keep from rubbing during a sharp turn.

Some time ago I bought the Alcoa rims to do the conversion. They were intended for a Prevost and are 22.5 diameter with 12 in width to handle the wide tires. I got a good deal on two brand new ones from a surplus dealer.

I am still up in the air on whether to continue or not. It's time to buy fronts and obviously that is the time to do the conversion. On the other hand I have had no problems with the existing setup.

It was interesting to hear of first hand experience of the handling before and after the tire swap. I would really like to hear more to help me with the decision.

In the mean time the rims I scored off Ebay age gracefully in the garage.

One thing I had already decided was that it was going to be much cheaper to drill the lug holes bigger than it was to remove the hub, press out the studs, and replace the studs with smaller ones.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:35 AM   #12
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Richard,
I just got an email from a friend that bought a new Prevost and changed tires. He has 4 new 365's for $400 a piece. He said that was half price. Now may be the time to upgrade!

For anyone else he also has 4 315's and he said they were half price.
The tires are in the Orlando area and I can get anyone in contact with the owner to talk about shipping etc....

-Andrew
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:11 AM   #13
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hi richard, is this the wheels that you bought?

http://www.alcoa.com/global/en/produ...ry=22.5&page=0

are our wheels polished or durabright?

tom
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encantotom View Post
are our wheels polished or durabright?

tom
Tom, as I remember it, ALCOA got things rolling with Dura-bright 2002 and later. So, I do not think they will be found as original equipment on coaches manufactured before that time. I certainly don't have them on my '99. Wish I did however.

Russ - living on my ALCOA pension :-)
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:20 PM   #15
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I know Newell recommends the 365's on the front of the coach due to a heavy front end. I was just thinking though, what about the tag? I have seen a few coaches of my vintage with 365's on the tag but didn't know if it should be looked into. I know Prevost have problems with blowouts on the tag axel so what about our Newells. Is it a bolt on assembly or is modification required?
Any thoughts?
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:56 PM   #16
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Tom & Julie,
Just got back from Newell & asked a lot of questions about the 365 upgrade. I also asked your question about putting the 365s on the tag. Any coach with the tag wheel inverted out like the front wheels, this change in the tag assembly occurred around 2000, can put the 365s on the tag as a bolt on. Advantage is additional carrying ability & an emergency spare for the front.

Some other answers I got. The alcoa wheel # Newell is using for the 365s is 803601. When I asked if the stud holes could be drilled out to fit coaches with 1 1/16" studs I was told Newell didn't think Alcoa would like that. I then asked could the wheels be ordered with 1 1/16" stud holes and was told Newell had not tried. I asked about the wheel well skirt replacement. I was told it was a coach by coach basis, but felt my '99 would need the ww skirts altered. I was under the impression the ww skirt alteration was making it wider, but that is incorrect. It needs to be raised to allow clearance.

By the way Newell has lowered the price on the non ZF coaches to $2995.

Hope this answers some questions.....................
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:25 AM   #17
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hi steve,

the alcoa spec sheet shows the hub pilot wheels that is 22.5x10.5 to be a 80360x, where x is the finish. a 1= polished outside only. so that would make it a 803601. is that the part number you meant? all of the alcoa wheels are a 6 digit part number. there are a set of them on ebay right now for about a grand shipped.

the 365/70R22.5 tire fits on this wheel. yikes these are expensive tires. michelins are about 800 apiece just for the tire.

a DB after the 1 would make it a durabrite finish.

tom
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:59 AM   #18
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Hi Tom,

Steve had the part number correct in a private email to me. It is 803601. The specs as you noted are here:

http://tinyurl.com/3nbcxlr

We still have to overcome the issue of "bolt hole diameter" as our studs are bigger. I had not looked up the price of the 365 - that is a shocking price. A number of the guys on the Prevost forum are reporting good service and better pricing from Double Coin tires. I need to check into that.

http://www.doublecoin-us.com/

Russ
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheavn View Post
Tom & Julie,
Just got back from Newell & asked a lot of questions about the 365 upgrade. I also asked your question about putting the 365s on the tag. Any coach with the tag wheel inverted out like the front wheels, this change in the tag assembly occurred around 2000, can put the 365s on the tag as a bolt on. Advantage is additional carrying ability & an emergency spare for the front.

Some other answers I got. The alcoa wheel # Newell is using for the 365s is 803601. When I asked if the stud holes could be drilled out to fit coaches with 1 1/16" studs I was told Newell didn't think Alcoa would like that. I then asked could the wheels be ordered with 1 1/16" stud holes and was told Newell had not tried. I asked about the wheel well skirt replacement. I was told it was a coach by coach basis, but felt my '99 would need the ww skirts altered. I was under the impression the ww skirt alteration was making it wider, but that is incorrect. It needs to be raised to allow clearance.

By the way Newell has lowered the price on the non ZF coaches to $2995.

Hope this answers some questions.....................
Steve,

Is this the total price? Including 2 front tires, wheels, and skirt alteration?
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:49 PM   #20
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Tuga,
When I asked Tommy Key if that price includes everything including the wheel well skirt(painted) he said everything except the machining of the wheel studs. Machining of the wheel studs is $2,000 more.
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