Steering Performance Changes Over the Years - Luxury Coach Lifestyles
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:55 PM   #1
77newell
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Default Steering Performance Changes Over the Years

I have a 1977 Newell 35 feet long that I love a lot. The strength and longevity are amazing. My wife likes the coach too but hates driving it due to its steering performance. I don't find a problem with it, nor have the shops that have looked at it, but hey I grew up driving two cylinder John Deeres.

All this got me to wondering if Newell's steering performance has improved over the years in the same way that car steering has improved. Do the more recent Newells steer pretty much like a car today or are they do they still require more than car type attention going down the highway for reasons other than the simple mass of the vehicle.

I suspect the steering on ours might be less than original due to heavier rear end weight resulting from the replacement of the Cummins 555 with a 6V92T. That could change the weight balance on the whole vehicle.

At any rate the Newell is first rate. And if I sell this one I'll get another one.

jon
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:15 PM   #2
Richard and Rhonda
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It's a good question. I have tweaked on the front end of my Newell, and also the our previous Newmar until it could get no better, and the short answer to your question is I cannot make it drive like a car. Mine requires very little steering input, BUT you can't take your eyes off the road for any period of time.

Here are some things you can try, that don't cost a lot of money, only your time. First, weight the coach and use the tire inflation tables to figure out how much pressure to run in the tires. If you did lighten the front end up, and you are running the fronts with too much pressure, the front end will skate around.

Next, make sure the ride height is adjusted correctly.

Then check all play in the front end from steering wheel to tire. Easiest way I've found to check from the tie rod back to the steering wheel is to clamp different parts of the steering train down and turn the wheel. You'll quickly see how much slop you have.

Next, almost all steering gears have an adjustment. If it's too loose, then that will generate back and forth movement. If it's too tight, it almost feels the same, except the difference is that you have to physically recenter the steering wheel after making a small correction.

I saved the best for last. Set the toe in at 2/32 to 3/32. You will be amazed at how that plants the front end. Yeah, you might not get but 50000 miles out of the steer tires, but who cares, hardly anyone wears them out.

I have driven Newells, Prevosts, Bluebirds, tag Country Coaches, and tag Newmars. None of them drive like a car. They all required more attention to the road than a car to keep it centered.

Exactly what is yours doing that you do not like?
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:41 PM   #3
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Default Steering Performance

Richard: Thanks for your indepth reply.

since I didn't do the engine change I don't know what the previous performance was like. I have weighed and adjusted the tire pressures according to the weight.

I had the toe-in set to zero based upon the recommendation of the factory. All alignment was checked and found to be otherwise OK. Service people have checked the tightness of the system and found nothing loose but I like your suggestion of clamping things and seeing what moves and what doesn't. Since I don't mind getting a bit dirty that will probably be my next venture.

I've tried adjusting the level of the front and found no difference so far but will continue to adjust to see if any setting makes a difference.

I suspect that the steering performance issue is mainly expectations but I want to be sure. The main issue is that while towing a car my wife tends to end up with a fair bit of wandering. Without the car she does better. I've noticed that I tend to make small steering adustments by just bumping the steering wheel in the right direction and then return to center. I don't even think about it, it's just automatic for me. That works well for me but my wife just can't seem to quite get the hang of it. This is no complaint against her, I'd trade the Newell before I trade her.

The Ross steering gear has been adjusted with a surprizing twist, it was adjusted too tight. The tightness caused it to bind just a tiny bit which delayed the steering action. You couldn't feel it bindning, it actually felt like looseness in the steering even though there was none. It's much better since the adjustment.

I'm amazed at the quality of these coaches. Mine has almost 20,000 miles on it. The closet doors have absolutely even gaps to the frames when closed and the one that also blocks off the aisle when opened has an even gap to the frame when in that postion. That's on a coach that has been everywhere from Alaska to Guatamala with the previous owner. Even the orginal RadarRange works. Amazing.

Thanks to all on this site for the dialogue that keeps us informed
jon
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:06 PM   #4
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Ok, this is a quick thing to try, and I will be amazed if you are not amazed. Zero toe in gives great steer tire wear, but it will make the coach hunt like a coon dog.

Set the toe in at 2/32. If you don't like it, it is easily set back to zero. If you think that's a lot, I looked up Prevost specs once, they say 1/8 to 1/4.

If you don't know how to do this yourself, let me know, and I will walk you through it. It's an hour project at best.

All of the coaches I have had handled a little worse while towing a car. They are more sensitive to oversteering with a tail wagging back there.

I know exactly what you mean about the steering box being too tight. It is really hard to distinquish that driving sympton from it being too loose.
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:57 AM   #5
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I think I can "quick change" the toe-in. I get your point and will experiment. I'm wondering why the factory recommends zero toe-in given the low mileage we put on tires and the potential steering benefits.

What you say makes sense so experiment I will

thanks for the insight
jon
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:40 AM   #6
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Just a quick update on some interesting changes to my 77 coach. Yesterday I had both front tires replaced, one was outdated and the other couldn't be matched by the dealer. I had Continental HSR's load range H installed and the steering characteristics improved significantly. The dealer (TCI) suggested carrying 95 psi in the tires even though the load only calls for 85psi because he wanted to reduce the heat buildup in the heavier casing that would occur at 85psi. Steering reactions to both pavement variations and side winds are significantly reduced with the new tires. The only explanation I can come up with is that the stiffer sidewalls of the load range H tires versus the original load range G tires has taken some quishiness out of the tires and made the steering more direct. Maybe this isn't the reason but I do like my steering now.

Ya'll be well
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:56 AM   #7
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i have the 11r24.5 continental hsl tires that i put on all wheels last summer and have been very very happy with them. smooth ride and no problems.

thanks for the update

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Old 05-15-2009, 01:59 AM   #8
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Oops I forgot one more important thing that came up yesterday. In the course of replacing the front tires we found one Budd aluminum wheel corroded deeply on the inside. There was no evidence at all externally, but I sure am glad I found it this way than tooling along and having the wheel disintegrate. Once the tire was removed the deep pitting was obvious. Since all the other rims have been spotless I have no idea why this one went dingo.

Jon
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