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06-24-2008, 04:10 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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Brake and Supply Air Problems and solution
Hi all,
when Michael was at my home last month he noticed my supply and brake air went down together when drawing down the supply (airbags, etc). As many of you know (and i learned), the engine air compressor and the 120v compressor upfront both supply air to all systems. there are two tanks behind the front axle that one does the brakes and the other the suspension etc. there are check valves on each of them that prevent flowback from one to the other. so if an airbag goes out while driving, the brakes will still hold pressure. after a while, rust gets in them and a chunck of rust holds the checkvalves open. when that happens the symptoms are like mine. michael said he had newell change both checkvalves. so, i went down to my bus mechanic and he got the valves from fleetpride (Bendix 800372 SC-3 Single Check Valve) for 22 bucks each and changed them out. fixed my problem totally.
my air purge was not consistent for my air brake dryer so i got the purge rebuild kit for the brakemaster dryer and had them change it too. fixed it right up.
later
tom
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07-01-2009, 02:30 AM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 37
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I am doing some preventative maintenance and wanted to locate the check valves in my coach and replace them. I put the coach up on ramps (rated at 20K each) and located two rectangular and two round tanks in the front but the only valve I saw was at the stop light switch. Based on Wally's post I went to NAPA Auto Parts and looked at the SC-3 P/N 800372 check valve but have yet to locate it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Brian
87 37' Newell Classic 8V92TA HT740
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07-01-2009, 12:24 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 886
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On my 99 I have a spin on filter in the tag axle wheel well on the passenger side. I change it once a year. Does anyone know if this is the air dryer? Or is that something else?
I regularly bleed the water from the tanks in the rear of my coach and in the generator compartment on the auxillary air pump. There is also another water/air filter in the engine compartment for the leveling valves. It is amazing the amount of water that comes out! I guess it is the high humidity in Louisiana.
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Tuga & Karen Gaidry
1999 Newell 45 w/2 slides
Coach #512
2005 Pilot
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07-01-2009, 01:09 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 326
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Brian,
On my 88 coach I have a check valve where the line enters the tank on all of my tanks. I think yours is similar to mine and has two tanks stacked on top of one another in the front, one in the rear and a small tank for you toilet if you have an air operated toilet. My toilet tank was located in the wheel on the drivers side and I relocated it in the bay that contains the water heater. I also installed a check valve on the small tank.
I also have a small water seperator installed after the 110 air pump, and at the entrance side of the toilet air tankj.
I live in my coach and when I,m parked here in Minnesota in the summer the water seperator at the 110 air pump gets completely full every week and push the dump valve at the bottom to drain it. The one at the toilet gets very little moisture in it because the air to that tank comes from one of the large tanks and is already filtered before it gets to it.
Tuga is right about draining the tanks. I do all of mine every 6 monthes and it is suprising how much water is in them even with the filtering that I do.
I have changed my engine air seperator probably similar to Tuga,s which has a spin off filter on top that I change every year.
I use my coach in cold weather so I have a quart of alcohol put into each of my large tanks every october to prevent air line freeze ups. This gets drained out when I drain my tanks in Arizona in December.
Excessive moisture over time will ruin the check valves especially in old coaches like you and I have.
If you don't have them at your tanks I suggest you put them in.
MAKE SURE YOU PUT PROTECTION UNDER THE COACH BEFORE YOU GET UNDER AND WORK ON THE AIR SYSTEM.
Good luck my friend, Wally
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Wally and Phyllis
1988 Newell Coach #163
40' with tag 8V92
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07-01-2009, 03:30 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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In addition to maintaining the air dryers, the best alternative to reduce the impact of water in the air tanks is to put the lanyard pull type drain valves on the two brake tanks and the auxiliary (wet) tank making it easy to drain them every day you drive the coach and every week when you are using the coach but not driving it. Next time I have my coach on a lift, that is on my to do list. Having to crib up the coach and crawl under it is a pain and I suspect that there are coaches out there that haven't had the air tanks drained in years. As Wally pointed out, that is a prescription for rusting out the check valves. The attachment shows one of the old corroded check valves (center) Newell removed from my front tank and the two replacement valves.
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07-02-2009, 02:43 AM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 37
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Thanks for the help guys, I got my head way up in there and located the check valves on top of the round supply tanks as Wally advised. I prefer to do my own maintenance, it looks like the A/C condenser needs to be lowered or removed to gain access to the check valves. Anyone changed out these valves?
Brian
87 37' Classic 8V92TA HT740
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07-02-2009, 02:57 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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I watched Newell change my check valves out and they did not have to remove anything. However, remember that the pre-1990 Newell's may be different.
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07-02-2009, 04:19 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mesa, az
Posts: 1,375
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same as michael on mine. i watched my mechanic do it. i must say that he was a small fellow and i would not fit up to get the top one....but i am something of a shrek.
tom
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07-02-2009, 12:56 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 326
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When we did mine we did not remove the A/C or anything else to remove and install them.
You should be able to get at them out with the right wrench and feel your way through to get the new ones started.
When you get them installed before you drop the coach soap all of the tanks down and look for leaks at the welds especially on the ends. Two of mine had leaks and we had to replace them. The small tank for the toilet installed in the wheel well also had leaks in the welds.
__________________
Wally and Phyllis
1988 Newell Coach #163
40' with tag 8V92
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07-02-2009, 01:44 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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I am glad that this conversation got started. I have to admit that I haven't spent much time on the balance of the Air System since I repaired the Air Ride/Leveling System. The earlier statement about the Brake System being able to lose Air Pressure in case of an Air Bag Failure has me concerned.
Does anyone have a Schematic for their Air System? This would help me understand and check mine and I am sure would help others.
After the last discussion I found that my Air Pressure Regulator and Filter Assembly had a Cracked Bowl. I replaced it but still have another concern, there is a Valve that discharges at a timed sequence and discharges Air from the System. I will post pictures of the Valve later.
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have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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07-02-2009, 01:55 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,558
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Steve are you referring to the spitter valve on the bottom of the air dryer? Tom and I have a BrakeMaster air dryer with an integral pressure release/water purge on the bottom. When the air pressure regulator shuts down the engine driven air compressor the valve electrically opens to purge any water that has been separated from the air. This is the loud whoosh you hear every time the air tanks reach their full pressure.
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07-02-2009, 02:11 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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That looks like the location but mine is much different. I do have an Automatic Drain that Bleeds Air Pressure (whoose). I am making a trip to the Coach today to get some info and will bring my camera.
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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07-02-2009, 11:35 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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Just got back from the Coach. I can tell you that after sitting for a week the Brake System was still Pressurized while the Suspension side lost Air Pressure. This looks like the Check Valves are working Properly.
The Valve that I was asking about is part of the Cruise Control System. The Hoses to and from the Valve were in poor condition and Leaking. I replaced the Hoses and the problem went away (one of the Hoses was cracked). Looks like the Air Systems are back "On Line".
thanks for the clarification and making me look,
Steve
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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07-03-2009, 12:01 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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Steve,
All of us have searched for the elusive air schematic. There isn't one, and because every Newell is different, it's hard to compare coaches. However there are some basics involved that are common to all coaches.
I think you guys are coming to Creede. We'll all take a look at your rig and see if we can't pencil in the major air circuits.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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07-03-2009, 12:36 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 1,221
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Sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately we probably won't make it to Creede. It would be great for a basic schematic that lists the major items. For someone like me with a diesel coach for the first time that would really help.
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07-03-2009, 12:57 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,041
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Guys you might want to look at a previous post. http://www.newellclassic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=988
There is a section in that manual that explains how the leveling valves and the ride height valves are plumbed.
__________________
Richard Rhonda Ty and Alex Entrekin
1995 Newell # 390 DD Series 60, Allison World Trans
Subaru Outback toad
CoMotion Tandem
Often wrong, but seldom in doubt
Rhonda's chronicle https://wersquared.wordpress.com/
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07-03-2009, 02:00 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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After understanding the Air Ride/Leveling System, the Brake System looks to be fairly straight forward. The Brake System is just another Air System using the same Air Compressor with Safety (Check) Valves to keep them Separated.
Remeber to Block the Coach prior to getting under it!
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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07-03-2009, 02:10 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 1,340
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Richard,
Yes, we are planning to be at Creede, CO. I am looking forward to getting together and sharing knowledge about maintaining our Coaches.
By the way, my Cruise Control is the old Williams Dana Controls that I have been able to resurrect. Any old parts for the Dana Control that are laying around in your shops are welcome at mine to be cannibalized to keep the one on the Prairtie Schooner operating.
__________________
__________________
have Coach will Travel
Steve & Tricia
1982 Newell 38' (built before #1) 6V92 DD, 5 Speed Allison, 12.5 KW Kohler, Couch used to make into a Bed but I fixed it!
https://newellshowcase.com/thumbnails.php?album=214
2007 Yukon, 1981 CJ7 Laredo, 2002 Honda CRV, 1955 Thunderbird, 1952 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, 1952 Ford 8N, 1958 Airstream, 1959 Glasspar 16' Avalon, Cabin in the Woods........what will I work on next
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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