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Old 01-03-2008, 03:05 PM   #1
fulltiming
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Default Engine Bucking

Driving from Austin, TX to Yuma, AZ, I noticed a very slight roughness in the engine when climb grades. As I traveled further, the bucking became more pronounced until climbing the grade near Yuma on I-8 resulted in the transmission hunting between 3rd and 4th and bucking severely.

If this were a gasoline engine, I would assume that it was a spark plug fouling or a spark plug wire breaking down. With a diesel, neither of those are possible so the most logical alternatives were 1) fuel filter partially plugged, 2) air filter partially plugged, or 3) injector failing since the symptoms only occurred under high engine loads. I checked the air filter minder and it showed that the air restriction was very low.

I had both the secondary and primary fuel filters replaced in Yuma and took the coach back through the Border Patrol checkpoint and up the grade east of Yuma on I-8, then turned around about 20 miles later and returned over the grade to the foothills area. The trip was a non-event. No bucking, no hesitation.

I have retained the old fuel filters and will be cutting them open to attempt to determine if the primary or the secondary or both filters were plugged up. The filters had been replaced on August 5th and I had traveled about 9,000 miles since then.

A bad tank of fuel or moisture in the fuel tank with resulting algal growth can plug up a filter in a hurry.

I will post a follow up message after cutting the filters apart to determine the likely cause of the problem.


THE MORAL OF THE STORY:
I will also be carrying an extra pair of fuel filters in the bay (I had spare oil filter and hydraulic filter but no fuel filters) from now on. I was fortunate that the Express RV Lube in Yuma had the right filters in stock so it did not delay my trip.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:22 PM   #2
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Adding to my post, when changing out the fuel filters, I would recommend the following procedure,

1) Take the new primary filter (slightly taller) and fill it to overflowing with diesel (CRITICAL that this be done) making sure the gasket is coated with diesel,
2) Wipe down the existing primary filter and housing (drivers side firewall on the 8V92 models) to make sure the area is clean to avoid getting junk into the new filter, remove the old primary filter and screw in the new filter, tighten the new filter by hand, don't use a wrench on it, after the gasket touches the housing, tighten 1/2 turn,
3) start the engine and run it up to about 1,500 rpm then run at high idle for about 1 to 1-1/2 minutes, check the filter for leaks, then shut the engine down,
4) fill the new secondary filter to overflowing with diesel making sure that the gasket is coated with diesel (again CRITICAL),
5) clean and remove the old secondary filter (drivers side of the engine near the radiator) and screw in the new filter, tighten filter by hand,
6) start the engine and run it up to about 1,500 rpm then run at high idle for several minutes, again checking for leaks before shutting the engine down.

To keep the new filters filled with diesel from spilling, tear the top off of the box they come in and place the filter back in the box to keep it upright. You can take the old filter and place it back in the box to minimize the amount of diesel you spill.

If you don't fill the filters with diesel before you install them you will have to purge air from the system and that is no fun at all. Have the new filter ready to install as soon as you remove the old one to minimize the potential for air getting into the system.

Starting and running the engine between filter changes again minimizes the potential that enough air will get into the system to cause the engine to stall and have trouble starting again.

It is a good idea to take time to drain any moisture out of the water separators before changing the filters. If you suspect that you have gotten any fuel with moisture in it, draining the separators is a good idea. On my coach, the separators (one for each tank) are located in the bay with the generator fuel tank). Open the petcock, when clean, clear diesel comes out, close the petcock. I use a paper cup to catch the water/diesel so I can get a better view of what is coming out.

It is also a good idea to periodically do the same thing to the tank drain valves on the bottom of each tank. The first time I opened the petcock on the main tank, I got about 6 oz of black junk (algae) out. I had to stick a broom straw (a large paper clip that has been straighten out will also work) up into the petcock after I opened it to get it to start flowing. Again I used a paper cup to collect the diesel/gunk/water that comes out.
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:22 PM   #3
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You ain't gonna like this

My rig has been converted by a previous owner, God bless them, to a filter setup sold by Detroit Diesel. The element is mounted upside down in a clear housing. There is a plug on top of the housing to fill the filter once is is installed. There is a petcock on the bottom to drain fuel for changing the filter.

I know it was a retrofit, cause I see where the old setup mounted, and where a bypass plate is mounted for the fuel filter on the engine.

The replacement filters are less than 10 bucks.

Mike, I wasn't trying to poke fun at the gyrations needed to replace fuel filters, only to make the DIY crowd aware that there is a sweet setup available off the shelf. As usual you did a superb job of explaining how it is done.
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:11 AM   #4
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Great observation Richard. There are aftermarket filters that do make the job a little easier to do and easier to be sure you have a full filter.

The RV Lube facility where I got the standard replacement fuel filters charged about $13.50 each for them, which is somewhat more than your replacement filter. Nice change out.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:30 AM   #5
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I also put in the detroit filter with the glass top and that is how I discovered that I had the fungas in my fuel tanks. A week ago I left Minnesota for Arizona and went through filters but I am clearly getting rid of the fungas with the additives sugested by fulltiming.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:32 AM   #6
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just a followup. I think it was Micheal Day who suggested the anti fungal. And I went through 3 filters from Minnesota.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:49 AM   #7
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Glad you are getting rid of your algal growths and yes, you will plug up filters in the process. Having spare filters is essential in this case.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:27 AM   #8
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Michael, have you had the opportunity to bi-sect your fuel filters yet? I had to change out filters on my recent trip and although there was no water or black gunk evident in the filters they were definitely the cause of the power loss. I drain my separators frequently and never get more than 1/8 ounce of water combined. I haven't gone under the coach to drain the tanks, figuring the separators would handle that. Is that wrong thinking on my part? BTW did your coach buck only in cruise because of clogged filters or at all times? I've not experienced the bucking, only a steady loss of power.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:55 PM   #9
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Bry, your post was the stimulus I needed. I cut the end off of both canisters and pulled out the filter elements. Both were getting plugged up with algae but the secondary looked almost totally plugged.



The primary filter is the one in the front (LFP815FN). The secondary (LFP816FN) is to the rear and has 100% of the element covered with the goo.

Looks like the algaecide that Newell added did its job, as did the filters. I will probably add some additional algaecide just before I have my next trip planned and carry a pair of spare filters. I may carry two of the secondary filters since they do seem to plug up worse than the primary.

Nasty!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:57 AM   #10
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Default fuel filters

Michael, I'm surprised the secondary was nastier than the primary. I guess just looking on the inside is not going to show much, as you've demonstrated by opening them up. Well, I guess I'll order some algaecide, as none of the auto parts stores around podunk here carry it. At least I can get all the Wix filters I want and I'm laying in a good supply. I've got a date with the Newell
factory for the 17th to get all my itches scratched. I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:33 AM   #11
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The secondary filter is a finer screen so things that get through the primary get caught in the secondary. You are seeing millions of microscopic pieces of algae coating the filters.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:25 AM   #12
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Interesting discussion fellow owners/mechanics. Thanks for the great info. I'm enjoying this site more and more each time I visit. One question. How often do you change your fuel filters? I've driven my Newell over 200,000 miles and am still enjoying full powere with no interruptions. They are changed every 15,000. I have a series 60 but doubt if that makes any difference. Maybe the fact that we are on the go most of the time (requireing new fuel added frequently) restricts the algae growth. I have never added any thing to my fuel tank. Any thoughts?
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:27 PM   #13
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I think there are about three major sources of contamination. One, you own tank can become a breeder for the slime if it is partially full and sees temperature swings. That pumps air in and out of the tank, and when the air cools off the water precipitates.

Two, the same thing can happen in the big tank that the diesel is stored in at the filling station. My own algae contamination was directly related to a fill up at a place that in hindsight does not sell a high volume of diesel, resulting in low turnover, and a partially full storage tank.

Third, contamination from the tanker trucks that carry the diesel. You would be shocked to find out the different things that are carried in a tanker truck with minimal cleaning, if any at all.

It's no guarantee, but buying diesel at places that sell a lot of diesel cuts your risk. I know the nickel per gallon that I saved on that one fill up was eaten up by the cost of the filter change out.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:08 PM   #14
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Larry, I agree with Richard's comments. I try to ONLY fill up at major truck stops, primarily Flying J (truck island rather than the RV island). I try to make sure that they are using a filter on the pump, although I had to fill at one truck stop that didn't have the external filter on the pump and that could have contributed to the problem. It is always a crapshoot at any fueling station.

Keeping the tank full when it is parked for a while is a big help. I am not as good about that as I should be.

There are those who never use any anti-algaecide. The dryer the climate where your coach is, the more likely this approach will work. In coastal areas, I would be concerned about the inside of the tank turning into a giant slime holding basin.

I routinely have my filtered changed by Newell once a year when they do the annual maintenance. That is typically about 15,000 miles. This time, mine were plugged up by about 12,000 miles.
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:25 PM   #15
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Thanks again. I fill at flying J's exclusively, which probably helps, but, I too, leave my tanks partially full as I pull a trailer and don't want the extra weight. I'll just continue to keep an eye on my filters after changes. Thanks again and happy traveling.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:30 AM   #16
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Mike, When we got back to Ca., I took the coach to BayCity Electric, San Diego, they are a generator repair facity for Koler. They have a machine that cleans the tanks and removes the bad stuff. What was in the glass jar is what is attached to your filter. Also someone had used red dye fuel, in Ca. that is not a good thing. So far about 16,000 miles, the big Yamaha is still strong.

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Old 01-11-2008, 04:21 AM   #17
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There are a couple of companies here in Newport Beach that provide mobile fuel cleaning services, primarily for boats but they will do RV's. I am thinking about having them clean the 280 gallons I still have in the two tanks.

Hopefully the cleaning will help.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:12 AM   #18
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To provide full disclosure...I have been a rep for Central Petroleum Company for over 25 years. They specialize in all kinds of petroleum products for farm and industry. I have used their lubricants and fuel conditioners in my own vehicles with excellent results. They make several different fuel conditioners for different applications including treating heating oil in industrial use. Many times they can eliminate fungus and move it on through. My own stable has included at least one diesel since 1985. I have used their product called "Power-flo-klenz" occaisionally in my diesel pick-ups and Jeep and 90% of the time in my Newell. I have never had a filter plug. I had the injectors R/B on my 6.5 TD at 180,000 miles when we R/Built the engine. The truck had been running OK before the head gasket blew but the injectors did show some wear. I usually change the filter on my Newell at 10,000 miles. I guess my message is to always use a high quality lubricating,bacteriacide fuel conditioner at every fill-up. The cost is minimal and usually offset by better fuel economy.
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