No 12 volt?

chockwald · 02-20-2010, 11:38 PM

Went out to start up the 6V92 this morning. Uplugged from shore power and went inside to start it up....NOTHING! At first I thought maybe it wasn't in neutral, but then I noticed I wasn't getting any DC power anywhere.....no interior lights, no backup monitor....nothing that works off 12 volt would work, except the radio.....hmmm? Then I went back outside and plugged back into shorepower, and all the 12 volt stuff came on, and I was able to start the 6V92. I then uplugged, and all the 12 volt stuff went off, and I couldn't shut the diesel off. The batteries are all fine as it starts fine when plugged into AC. One additional thing....I cannot get the genset to turn over, whether or not plugged in. All I hear is a "clicking" sound from the genset (I opened up the genset door and tried to start it there, and that is when I heard the clicking sound). I checked all the fuses, including the large 90amp fuses at the back. All was well when we returned from our weekend at Rancho Jurupa, except I noticed on Tuesday that the batteries did not seem to be charging. I unplugged the converter/charger, and then plugged it back in and they started charging.

So, this is all I can think of....what am I missing? All the battery grounds seem fine, and it starts when plugged into shore power. Hoping one of you can steer me in the right direction. I'm a dunce when it comes to trouble shooting, and would not know where to start....HELP!!

Richard and Rhonda · 02-20-2010, 11:54 PM

Oh boy, call me if you want ate won seven too too tree two zed fiver six

I think you need to start with the voltmeter and start measuring voltages at both the coach and house batteries, with and without the coach plugged in.

chockwald · 02-21-2010, 01:11 PM

Talked with Tom last night after I talked with you (thanks for helping me to get focused, Richard).......we've narrowed down the trouble shooting to a few areas based on the symptoms I related to you (coach will start when plugged into shorepower, genset won't....nothing will start when not plugged in).....house battery ground, house batteries, and perhaps the merge solenoid at the rear of the coach. I've been under the weather for the past 5 days, and just didn't have the energy to tackle anymore last night, so I'll give it a shot this afternoon when I get home from soccer. I feel better about diagnosing this problem after talking with Tom. Tom, thanks for taking the time to talk with me last night. You really helped me clarify in my mind how to tackle this problem. I'll keep you updated on my progress this afternoon.

Summersgal · 02-21-2010, 02:38 PM

Does your coach have the switch on the overhead console to switch shoreline power on and off. I can go out and test this theory, I will unplug from shoreline and leave the switch in the shoreline position and see if it will start.

Jeff

Summersgal · 02-21-2010, 02:49 PM

Clarke,

I went out to the 88 and unplugged from shoreline, I left the transfer switch in the shoreline position and tried to start it. It started right up, sorry, I was hoping that maybe your switch had a bad set of contacts and was not working correctly.

Jeff

chockwald · 02-21-2010, 11:40 PM

I don't have a transfer switch in mine......just got home, and will be checking out a few ideas Tom had. Hope it's something simple....Tom and I think it's either the batteries have discharged, the battery ground is bad, or a combination of those two, or a bad merge solenoid. Will update later.

chockwald · 02-22-2010, 07:03 PM

OK....problem solved....it's always the ground....well, not ALWAYS, but a lot of the time. Tom was helping me, over the phone, to trace the wiring running from the converter/charger back to the rear panel so we could begin testing the wire for voltage, and I was about 1/2 way back to the rear panel where the merge solenoid is when my neighbor walked up and asked "what's wrong?".....he is a crane operator, but is also a wiz on diesel, or gas engines, as well as large diesel trucks. He took me back to the rear electrical panel and started wiggling ground wires....he began wiggling the large ground on the right of the picture below (and it was very loose) and I hear a "click"....then he wiggled the other one and the same result....we cleaned off the terminals and the wire connections and reconnected, and wala....12 volt power again in the coach.

Thank you again, Tom and Richard for your help. What a relief. The more I talked with each of you the better I felt about figuring this out. Always helps to have knowledgeable eyes on site, however, and my neighbor and his son have helped me and my son, Tim numerous times with car and coach issues and have always come through quickly....should have talked to him sooner. But, still it is so nice to know that you guys are there for me and feeling my pain.....nice to know I'm not alone in this adventure, and that, as Tom has said before, is the real blessing of this website are the friendships that have developed over these past 2 years.....3/1/2010 will be our 2 year anniversary of the purchase of our Newell.

folivier · 02-22-2010, 09:05 PM

Clarke, glad it was a simple fix. That's what I'm learning about our Newells, don't overlook the obvious.

zcasa · 02-22-2010, 10:41 PM

Geez Clarke, I was going to get you to move into a beautiful 1992. lol.

Glad it all worked out. Michael helped me with the same exact issue on the generator last year. He said send me some pictures, I did, Michael said check your power cable looks a little loose. I couldn't even tell that by looking at it. But, sure enough, a quarter of a turn, maximum, and whammy, generator fired right up.

Great lessons for all of us, that as we drive, things wiggle and just need to be tightened back up. Love it, that is why my tool box only needs a crescent wrench. lol.

chockwald · 02-22-2010, 11:52 PM

Forest....so often it is the simple things....I was focused on the grounds up front by the house batteries, as well as the grounds on the chassis batteries that I overlooked the ones above the merge solenoid.

David.....yep, stuff does work loose.....now I have one more area to watch. Think I'll stick with the less complicated '82.....I get confused enough with the low tech stuff that comes up on mine...haha!

Apparently the ground had been failing for a while, and as a result my house batteries were not getting a full charge...they were way down, and I didn't know it, but once I fixed the ground issues in back they are now charging properly again, and for about the first 2 hours the charger was "slamming" the house batteries with about 25+ amps.....it's now dropped down a stage is is hitting them with a little under 10amps.

zcasa · 02-23-2010, 01:52 AM

Great relief, I"m sure, you'll hopefully get a good nights sleep tonight and be back up to speed tomorrow. Life is good.

chockwald · 02-23-2010, 05:13 AM

OK...that part was too easy.....the generator still will not turn over though.....hmmm. Everything else back to normal, but Kohler generator will not start. Only can hear the click of the starter solenoid....any ideas? How do I trouble shoot that? Must be getting some power...could the starter be stuck? Have never had trouble starting it ever...it always turns over immediately and fires right up....until the issue with the bad ground.

Is there a switch that might have to be reset?

HoosierDaddy · 02-23-2010, 11:16 AM

It is easy to check the starter solenoid. I'd jump that and see if it turns over. If you're hearing a click it could be the starter solenoid or the fuel pump solenoid. They both are on the right side of the engine near the starter motor.

Richard and Rhonda · 02-23-2010, 02:12 PM

Hmmm, jump the solenoid as suggested. You could have cooked the contacts in the solenoid trying to crank during the low voltage session. Low voltage produces high amperage which is not really all that healthy for the contacts. My guess is the click is the solenoid pulling in, but the contacts are fried and not allowing current to the starter motor.

As a quick check, put the voltmeter on both terminals of the solenoid and check your voltage. Static and while trying to crank.

prairieschooner · 02-23-2010, 02:17 PM

the place where you showed the loose Ground is the Shunt for the Amp Meter. This is too far away from the AC Generator to be the problem with a Starter. I would try to isolate a Battery that Starts the AC Generator (on our '82 the House Batteries do that job) from any others. I would also unbolt the middle section of your Front Bumper and unscrew the Exhaust Pipe (ours has a Pipe Union) so that you can bring the AC Generator out and get a good look. Now you can get a Voltage reading at the Positive Terminal of the Starter when idle and when trying to Start it, this will require some help from inside the Coach at the Starter Switch or long leads on a Volt Meter. This will prove or disprove another loose Connection or Low Voltage.

I would suggest that you use an Analog Volt Meter for this because they are much easier to read since you are not used to Troubleshooting Electrical issues. I would also advise you to always disconnect the Ground (-) 1st so that you don't turn a wrench into a Welding Rod or worse Ignite the Gases from a Battery that is Venting.
Here is a link to a Battery Tester with an Analog Meter that Harbor Freight sells;
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...o?itemid=90636

remember Volts X Amps = Watts. so low Voltage makes any device work harder than designed.

folivier · 02-23-2010, 02:33 PM

Is your generator propane? Maybe check that the low-voltage didn't shut off the propane switch? There may be a reset, but don't see why that wouldn't let the starter turn over the motor.

chockwald · 02-23-2010, 03:18 PM

OK....will probabaly get to that tomorrow. Thank you for the ideas. This problem seems, at first blush, a little easier to trouble shoot.....I know where to start. The prior problem involved checking the wiring front to back. Pulling out the Genset seems less complex. I'll let ya'll know what I find.

Somehow this issue seems related to the previous issue as the generator started easily last Monday on our short trip home from Rancho Jurupa....not even a hicup.

chockwald · 02-26-2010, 09:16 PM

OK...jumped the starter solenoid and it started right up. Off to buy a replacement. Will update later.

Later....it wasn't the starter solenoid.....something has gone wrong in the start switch on the console, or in the wiring at the remote start located next to the starter. Didn't have time to finish trouble shooting before it got dark today....but tomorrow is another day.

chockwald · 02-27-2010, 03:38 PM

No working on the coach today....raining cats and dogs....maybe tomorrow.

zcasa · 02-27-2010, 04:57 PM

Raining here too, Clarke. Cold too. I would say 15-20 degrees below normal/average. Sounds like you are narrowing down the culprit. I know that you will be relieved when you can isolate the issue. Best wishes tomorrow on finding and completing your fix.