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Old 09-10-2013, 01:28 PM   #41
Neweller
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Dave you are pretty funny too! Everyone wants a deal eh', my friend are we saying this about all coaches or just Newell's? I actually know a few folks that if they don't pay high they can't brag enough. Some folks believe in paying high and charging high for every thing, while others believe in paying low and charging high for everything and then their are some whom buy low and charge low. Which one are you? Sorry I couldn't resist on this one.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:43 PM   #42
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LoL Ken, all coaches, all real estate, car sales...you name it! At a 10 day mall parking lot RV show here in Reno that ended yesterday, one dealer sold 89 RV's!!!! Guess what?? all those customers wanted "deals".....think they got one?? My wife is a Realtor (even while traveling) in the low country coast SC and every customer wants a "deal". I can tell you the market has changed 180 deg, in real estate and in RV's. We purchase 4 foreclosed homes 1-2 years ago and they have doubled in value. Two have tripled. RV's of course are depreciating assets, so hard to make a profit $$$ unless your a dealer. Not only have RV mfgs set records this year, but the industry as a whole, rv show attendance, sales are at all time highs everywhere in RV industry.

So which one am I? hmm....actually neither Owning 13 RV's in 25 years I am proud to say I have never lost money on one. I dont look for a "deal" but look for a coach that I cant get hurt if I keep it for 2 or 3 years. Tons of factors go into it, style, floorplan, how fast I can sell it, ect...The average RV owner sells in less than 3 years so the market is always moving. My Newell is a perfect example. I could keep it 5 years and probably not lose a penny and sell it fast. It was advertised for two months, and many on here had a chance at buying before me, so not really a "deal". Retireing at 44 did put me on a budget, so no way I could take a hit ever. I dont try to make a profit, just not lose money. Having dealer knowledge and values helps alot!!!

Lets say a nice Newell 02 triple slide is $180k That would be a "deal"for anyone!! but not for me....In three years it would depreciate to maybe $165k. That $15k to me is alot of money. The only way to 100% not lose money on a RV is to never ever sell it!! LOL...how many members on here have had more than one RV?? LOL

Always looking for my next coach
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Dave you are pretty funny too! Everyone wants a deal eh', my friend are we saying this about all coaches or just Newell's? I actually know a few folks that if they don't pay high they can't brag enough. Some folks believe in paying high and charging high for every thing, while others believe in paying low and charging high for everything and then their are some whom buy low and charge low. Which one are you? Sorry I couldn't resist on this one.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:04 PM   #43
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Interesting perspective Dave. I have been watching the used inventory at Newell for over a year and it correlates with my business in art. The Print business is booming because the sales of original art in the 5 to 25 thousand range is dead. Companies that used to buy my originals are now just buying prints. You have two markets that are viable, the low end and the very high end for famous works. The artists in the mid-range have been killed since they rely on the so called upper middle class. With coaches, the boom seems to be in the 100 to 200 range and then again the top end with those ordering new Newell coaches. But their 500 to a million range has not been moving well. I think it is a sign of the middle class pain we see right now. So, you bet I expect a deal, 25 to 30% is my expectation.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:14 PM   #44
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Dave a "deal" as you well know being in RV sales is all in the perception of the buyer. A good salesperson will be able to have the buyer firmly believing that it was a "deal" regardless of the price or margin. Also, the value of any asset is truly only what a buyer is willing to pay for it at any given point in time. Therefore, value is only firmly established at the actual time of the sale.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #45
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I agree with the exception that the late model Newells you are looking at are a WHOLE different puppy. Say someone builds a 2011 model for $1.8. Then trades it in at Newell and builds a 2014 for $2.1. The customer is upgrading, spending more $$ also but losing equity. In that market, they have disposable income and taking a 300k or 400k hit doesnt matter. Also, new ordered unit profit $$ are probably kept seperate from used market $$. I have no idea if its 5% profit or 30% profit on those late models but if they let you walk away, it wasnt enough $ for them

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Interesting perspective Dave. I have been watching the used inventory at Newell for over a year and it correlates with my business in art. The Print business is booming because the sales of original art in the 5 to 25 thousand range is dead. Companies that used to buy my originals are now just buying prints. You have two markets that are viable, the low end and the very high end for famous works. The artists in the mid-range have been killed since they rely on the so called upper middle class. With coaches, the boom seems to be in the 100 to 200 range and then again the top end with those ordering new Newell coaches. But their 500 to a million range has not been moving well. I think it is a sign of the middle class pain we see right now. So, you bet I expect a deal, 25 to 30% is my expectation.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:38 PM   #46
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Hi Clint. I would disagree as most consumers in this economy are VERY educated when they make a $50k - $500k purchase. Seems like everyone is doing their homework these days. Fortunatly in the RV industry we have comps (comparisons) just as the Real Estate industry and Auto industry does. Every RV dealer and auction goes by the nada wholesale connect dealer system where no options are added and pricing usually starts at 70% of that number. In VERY rare circumstances, a dealer will go to 100% of wholesale book but hardly ever. Newells are not in this book as they are such low production. I have seen customers think we were making $50k when we were only making $5k and we have made $30k and customers think we were making $0. Its all on how we buy the coach on trade and the comps limit that.

I personally know of a 91 Newell, very low miles, one owner, updated at Newell 3 years ago with new flooring, front seats, blinds, couch, chairs, ect...really an amazing coach that just sold for $18k. In no way does that mean the market for 91's is that price, as all the comps must be taken together for true value, not just one deal.

I know of someone else who just purchased a 45' late model fiberglass coach. They paid what they thought was a very fair price, but actually the dealer (not us) made almost $50k on them and if they sold or traded it tomorrow, they will lose more than $30k. The value of that coach was in no way what they paid, the value is what the comps say it is. Not what someone pays, but what its worth. That why this RV market is exploding. If you pricing something close to comps, it will sell fast. Most dealers will be happy these days to make $5k on a coach and move on, instead of holding on for months to make $10k.

Hope this makes some sense. LOL. Knowledge is power in this market
Dave

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Dave a "deal" as you well know being in RV sales is all in the perception of the buyer. A good salesperson will be able to have the buyer firmly believing that it was a "deal" regardless of the price or margin. Also, the value of any asset is truly only what a buyer is willing to pay for it at any given point in time. Therefore, value is only firmly established at the actual time of the sale.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:23 PM   #47
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No argument Dave but what i am saying that the economic spread of the population is hurting in the upper middle range. The rich are rich and almost rich are doing well, but the incomes in the 2 to 300 a year range are not spending money. The baby boomers are ready but the vast majority of them are not shopping in the half million and up range. I'm selling my business with patented technology so for the first time in my life I will be able to own one of these things but even with the disposable income I will have, when you are talking a few million, 39% goes to the tax man, and all the other taxes out there, I would say anyone buying a 1.5 million or more for an RV are worth 10 million or more. There is that gap where you find people worth 2 or 3 million that are just not spending on huge ticket products. You got the 90% and the next 8% that I'm talking about and then you have the top 2% with an extreme top 1% and my clients come from that 8% and they are not spending big. Psychology of sales are the same, the number of clients in the different economic brackets are wide. They are having a hell of a time moving the 2005 to 2008. I believe it is because of their price range rather than their floor plan and quality.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:52 PM   #48
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I totally agree!! 05-08's are abundant but who knows how much $ they have in them. Anything used above 300k is a tough sell.

But......I think another reason could be customers just like you. Do you buy a used Newell or brand new Essex? Hmmm...I think Newell is losing market share in the range your talking about to New 45' plastic RV's. Think of how many brand new Essex, Dynasty, Zephyrs, Heritages, ect... sell in that price range. I bet over 250 units a year! Those are all lost sales for Newell preowned. Make sense? That price range is sellin, just not for used Newells.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #49
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I agree , on the flip side what can you get for 200k new? Not a lot.. My wife had never looked at rv's up until 5 months ago. I first took her to see quad Winnebagos and allegros.. All were over 240k.. Then I took her to a no slide Newell (507) and she walked in and said who would want to spend 200 when you can have this for less than half of those. I think lack of nada is going to start helping us because there is starting to be a shortage in the 100-200 range of coaches.. I found one triple out there for 185 , single bath rear closet., the other doubles are all 199-225.. I think what a used Newell offers in the 100-200 range flat out kills anything out there for the $$..


another thing is look at what a new Benz or Audi runs you can bust 100k on those all day long.. And for 50k more have a killer coach.. Give me my 10k 2002 BMW 7 series and a coach lol
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:05 AM   #50
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Being a newbe myself, I went from considering spending 2-300K range and then discovered all the issues any coach would have new or old and just didn't like the sound of that. Then I found a 350K Prevost that was just stunning, a 40 footer. Was on the net for close to a year and then got sold. It was then that I discovered Newell and after that I wouldn't even look at a Prevost again. But I was never considering spending a million unbelievable dollars. I can't believe my wife is fine with it, she doesn't want to spend that much on a new house. It was forums like this that showed me the love people have for their Newells and how complaints are hard to find. That is rare of any product or company these days and for me, I don't want any those head aches I was reading about. My kids are shocked, they think we're thinking of running away. I want the wife to be so happy and wrapped in luxury that she'll just let me drive. I just want to drive down the road, to cruise the landscape. Like a singer, its a complete tax write off for I will be doing paintings and taking photos all along the way. It will be my mobile studio, something I dreamed of when I was a young student in art school. I won't have to guess what color to mix up, I'll be able to look out the window and see exactly what I need. I'm really looking forward to joining the club.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:19 AM   #51
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So happy you are in a position to do and purchase what you want. The one thing that separates Newell from anyone else is the awesome job the service reps do. Tommie cresley mike.. 24/7 they are there for you.. No other coach builder I know does that..
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:26 AM   #52
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So happy you are in a position to do and purchase what you want. The one thing that separates Newell from anyone else is the awesome job the service reps do. Tommie cresley mike.. 24/7 they are there for you.. No other coach builder I know does that..
Marc, not only is that Newell's "JOB 1" but those employees love their jobs and the product they build. So it is definitely a "Win, Win"!
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